The Dems Are Coming - I Need An AR15

B

bkrosco

Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
384
I had planned on buying an AR-15 someday mainly for range use etc. However, it could become next to impossible to get one in the very near future.

So, could you recommend a production model as well as a good place online to purchase one? I already have an FFL lined up to ship it to.

Is a bushmaster as good as any for a production model? What caliber?

These are the kinds of things I planned on continuing to research but it seems as though the time to buy is now.

Thanks.
 
Stag Model 1 from lanworldinc.com for about $900. Chris is great to work with.

website is correct now
 
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As far as brand i've got a bushmaster and it's done great. a buddy of mine has a cmmg and it's done him well also. Rock river also has a pretty good rep. good luck man. oh and caliber i'd stick with 223.
 
mr2blue: could you check that website for me? It does not come up.

I thought I had read that 5.56 was better because it can also shoot 223 well. I could be way off though.
 
A barrel chambered for 5.56 will also reliably fire .223. If you push a 5.56 round ito a .223 barrel, the primer may pop out of the casing and fall into the trigger mechanism. Bad news. A 5.56 barrel just doesn't care what you feed it. Chrome lining is irrelevant for modern ammunition for a semi auto. Go for chrome moly or stainless for accuracy. 1:9 twist for most bullets commonly available.

A "production model" costs more than a "build it yourself" and the results are essentially identical.

If a production of factory built model has the name "Colt" on it and you leave it unfired in it's original box, it will likely do better than most stocks have.

A do it yourself is definitely the way to play, you can build precisely what you want and most people wind up saving $200+. Building them is as easy as assembling a lego toy. Here's the info http://www.mapartsinc.com/anything.asp

You would buy a stripped lower receiver. $80 to $150. Just get one that is milled and forged. Then go buy yourself an AR15 Kit. They include all the pieces that you snap into the lower receiver, the buttstock, as well as the fully assembled upper receiver and barrel assy, which you just snap on top.

Essentialy, all lower receiver parts kits are the same if they are made to the same usgi milspec that the government buys. M&A Parts is reliable in this regard and a great value. Remeber- no one is getting usgi milspec parts because that means that they would have to have been recvd by the government first. But there are parts being sold that are made to those specs.

They can sell you whatever buttstock, handguard, pistol grip, barrel configuration, flat top or carry handle that you might want- or just get a standardized kit. Again- assembling one is easy breezy- they even have the military manual with step by step directions for $5. Or- read it off the internet. The hard part, assembling the upper (receiver, barrel, handguard, bolt carrier assembly)- that has already been done.

Build it yourself, brother. Call www.mapartsinc.com and talk to Andy. He knows the ar15 better than most.
 
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bkrosco said:
How does this one look:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=114968965
Click to expand...


Pretty good for $815 (the minimum bid), but you can do better. For $700 or so, you could build this yourself and afford a pile of magazines. It's a Stag Arms lower, and there's nothing wrong with that. Jeesee of Stag Arms is a well known builder of good stuff- and if you want this gun, that's a good price, but.......

Unfortunately, it's a Stag Arms lower with Model 1 parts. Not ideal. They are not known for reliably consistent aftermarket parts. I think you'll see http://www.model1sales.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=KCEM46CL&storeid=1&image=carm416pre.gif was added to the Stag lower to make this firearm. That would be $545 + the price of a stripped lower. The seller probably has $580 into it.

It has an m4 contour barrel (5.56) which is all the rage, but kind of useless unless you're mounting an m203 grenade launcher on it- otherwise it's a cosmetic thing, but no better than a standard CAR profile barrel. It's a looks thing.

It does not say if it has m4 feed ramps, but they're also pretty irrelevant for non-m16 applications. It has the newer m4 stock, a real 6 position model, and also has the m4 hand guards which are oval shaped and fatter around than the old style CAR Hand Guards.

It is however, described vaugely:Is it an a2 Carrying Handle upper (as described?)- not most people's first choice. The A4 (aka A3) Flat Top Upper is all the rage- and with good reason. It's easier to mount optics on them (they have a picatinny rail on top) and allow for this mounting to be done closer to the axis of the barrel, reducing parallax.

It infers that it has an a2 carry handle upper, but what is pictured is the a3/a4 flat top upper mounted up with a Detachable a2 carry handle- that would be a very cool thing (retail add on of $95). Model 1 has less than stellar a2 detachable carry handles- the micrometer click adjustment rear sights are a little marginal.

If it matters, I would ask.
 
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akula83 said:
5.56 is 223.
Click to expand...

Actually it isn't. While the bullet diameters are the same the case specs are not...

The cartridge casings for both calibers have basically the same length and exterior dimensions. The 5.56 round, loaded to Military Specification, typically has higher velocity and chamber pressure than the .223 Rem.

The 5.56 cartridge case may have thicker walls, and a thicker head, for extra strength. This better contains the higher chamber pressure. However, a thicker case reduces powder capacity, which is of concern to the reloader.

The 5.56mm and .223 Rem chambers are nearly identical. The difference is in the "Leade". Leade is defined as the portion of the barrel directly in front of the chamber where the rifling has been conically removed to allow room for the seated bullet. It is also more commonly known as the throat. Leade in a .223 Rem chamber is usually .085". In a 5.56mm chamber the leade is typically .162", or almost twice as much as in the 223 Rem chamber.

You can fire .223 Rem cartridges in 5.56mm chambers with this longer leade, but you will generally have a slight loss in accuracy and velocity over firing the .223 round in the chamber with the shorter leade it was designed for.
Problems may occur when firing the higher-pressure 5.56mm cartridge in a .223 chamber with its much shorter leade. It is generally known that shortening the leade can dramatically increase chamber pressure. In some cases, this higher pressure could result in primer pocket gas leaks, blown cartridge case heads and gun functioning issues.

The 5.56mm military cartridge fired in a .223 Rem chamber is considered by SAAMI (Small Arm and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute) to be an unsafe ammunition combination.

The plain jane S&W ARs are both excellently made a well priced, you might scout around for one of those. You can also look on gunbroker.com for deals as well. Unless you have some skill mechanically with firearms I would steer away from do it yourself kits, they don't always just fall together and if you don't understand what is causing the problem you could end up spending a few hundred trying to cure it. You really don't save that much unless you are building a specialty rifle.
 
Thanks for the info. I might need to stay away from gunbroker.com then because I just don't know enough yet to make an informed decision.

So, I'm still looking for more recommendations on what type of AR as well as good online places to buy one.

So far, it looks like the Stag Model 1 from Lan World Inc is as good as any. Any more thoughts would be appreciated though.

Man I have a lot to learn about this type of rifle.
 
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6642

READ UP BEFORE YOU SPEND YOUR MONEY!

I didn't see any mention of your acceptable price range so, I'll start at the very top:
  • Noveske Rifle Works
  • Knight's (KAC)

Colt isn't too far behind if you get one of the Law Enforcement models with the small diameter upper pins.

BushMaster, Rock River, CMMG, etc. are all of similar quality.

If you live in a free state, I would strongly suggest a Colt 6921 (14.5 inch Short Barrel Rifle with a $200 tax stamp). :thumbup: The 6933's are nice but, a little hard on the ears unless you suppress it. However, you could just get the 14.5 inch barrel and do fine without a can and another $200 tax stamp.
 
if you can find a colt tactical carbine in the $1200 or so range they are excellent rifles.

bushmaster, panther, armalite are all good, stag too.

i would get a 5.56 myself the ammo is too hard to find for the 6.8 or whatever they call it, at least right now it is, if ya get a used one make sure its a 1-7" or 1-9" twist bbl as a lot of earlier ones are not and the heavy 5.56 rounds are the way to go now, vs the 55 grain, i use blackhills 77gr OTM myself FWIW.
 
This late in the game; don't bother trying to build one. By the time you do all the research and figure it all out it will be too late or the prices will have increased 20-80% due to reactionary inflation. Just go buy a pre-made rifle. Considering you don't have one already you likely don't shoot much and won't be shooting this one much either. The first thing he'll go for is his dream 500% tax on ammo.
 
Absintheur said:
Actually it isn't. While the bullet diameters are the same the case specs are not...

The cartridge casings for both calibers have basically the same length and exterior dimensions. The 5.56 round, loaded to Military Specification, typically has higher velocity and chamber pressure than the .223 Rem.

The 5.56 cartridge case may have thicker walls, and a thicker head, for extra strength. This better contains the higher chamber pressure. However, a thicker case reduces powder capacity, which is of concern to the reloader.

The 5.56mm and .223 Rem chambers are nearly identical. The difference is in the "Leade". Leade is defined as the portion of the barrel directly in front of the chamber where the rifling has been conically removed to allow room for the seated bullet. It is also more commonly known as the throat. Leade in a .223 Rem chamber is usually .085". In a 5.56mm chamber the leade is typically .162", or almost twice as much as in the 223 Rem chamber.

You can fire .223 Rem cartridges in 5.56mm chambers with this longer leade, but you will generally have a slight loss in accuracy and velocity over firing the .223 round in the chamber with the shorter leade it was designed for.
Problems may occur when firing the higher-pressure 5.56mm cartridge in a .223 chamber with its much shorter leade. It is generally known that shortening the leade can dramatically increase chamber pressure. In some cases, this higher pressure could result in primer pocket gas leaks, blown cartridge case heads and gun functioning issues.

The 5.56mm military cartridge fired in a .223 Rem chamber is considered by SAAMI (Small Arm and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute) to be an unsafe ammunition combination.

The plain jane S&W ARs are both excellently made a well priced, you might scout around for one of those. You can also look on gunbroker.com for deals as well. Unless you have some skill mechanically with firearms I would steer away from do it yourself kits, they don't always just fall together and if you don't understand what is causing the problem you could end up spending a few hundred trying to cure it. You really don't save that much unless you are building a specialty rifle.
Click to expand...
I stand corrected then, you know more about this than I do.
 
I have started in on a new build myself, I have one more upper currently than I do lowers so I figured I might as well do a lower for it. I have heavy barrels, so with this build I am going lightweight. I have a Calvary Arms lower on the way, will be using an old Colt pre-ban 5.56 upper. This is barreled with the contoured barrel that is lighter than the standard HB uppers. The upper will go to JD Jones for carry handle removal and scope base. The way he does it the rear sight stays but the handle itself is removed. The lower and handguards will be coyote brown while the metal work will be duracoated to a federal brown. Should be a fun rifle when finished.
 
The Winchester website , in the police section, has an excellent explaination of the differences between 5.56/223 and 7.62/308. Some guns like the Ruger Mini-14 are designed for both.
Does anyone have experience with the S&W rifle ??
 
The S&W rifles have already gotten an excellent reputation. I know several trainers, including the gentleman who trains the security for the nuclear trains, who swear by them. The one I shot worked as well as any I have seen and was accurate to boot.
 
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