The differences between New and Veteran Collectors

ptgdvc

ptgdvc

Joined
Feb 27, 2003
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Once upon a time, we were all new collectors. I would like to open the floor to some of our "grizzled vets", so they can comment on the changes in their thinking and approaches to custom knife collecting that have happened to them, since they started out. I would ask for specific advice or stories that would be of help for relatively new collectors.

FWIW, here is one of mine.

Understand that there is an important difference between collecting and accumulating. Collections have a focus and a direction, and dare I say an objective. Virtually everyone starts out by accumulating knives that appeal to them for one reason or another. The sooner that you can figure out what pleases you and why it is pleasing, the better. But this will take time, proceed at your own pace. Look and learn as much as possible, count to ten and resist impluse buying!
 
ptgdvc said:
Understand that there is an important difference between collecting and accumulating. Collections have a focus and a direction, and dare I say an objective.
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Hi Peter. Respectfully we will disagree.

I am a collector of custom handmade knives (forget the nomenclature for a moment), by every definition. My tastes have matured, and my buying habits have been refined over time, but I have spent and continue to spend lots of discretionary income on this artistry and craft.

Besides quality, my collection does not have a specific focus. I have hand-finished pieces from Tai Goo and Daniel Winkler to hi-tech folders from Jeffrey Harkins, Kevin Wilkins, and RJ Martin. Slipjoints from Bob Ogg, Hunters from D'Holder, tactical folders from Boguszewski, art knives from David Broadwell, and a carving set from William Burger. By every definition it is a VERY diverse collection. But.... it IS a collection, not an accumulation.

Every piece cost me lots of money, they are ALL quality makers, and frankly I really resent being labeled as an accumulator--as if those of you who deal in one specific genre have matured to the point of being a veteran and seasoned collector. Bah..!

There are wonderful things we can talk about in learning how to spot specific pieces that won't disappoint you or give you buyer's remorse, which is more to the point of this thread. But I will not let the notion that a diverse collector is necessarily a rookie. Not so.

Coop
 
SharpByCoop said:
Hi Peter. Respectfully we will disagree.

I am a collector of custom handmade knives (forget the nomenclature for a moment), by every definition. My tastes have matured, and my buying habits have been refined over time, but I have spent and continue to spend lots of discretionary income on this artistry and craft.

Besides quality, my collection does not have a specific focus. I have hand-finished pieces from Tai Goo and Daniel Winkler to hi-tech folders from Jeffrey Harkins, Kevin Wilkins, and RJ Martin. Slipjoints from Bob Ogg, Hunters from D'Holder, tactical folders from Boguszewski, art knives from David Broadwell, and a carving set from William Burger. By every definition it is a VERY diverse collection. But.... it IS a collection, not an accumulation.

Every piece cost me lots of money, they are ALL quality makers, and frankly I really resent being labeled as an accumulator--as if those of you who deal in one specific genre have matured to the point of being a veteran and seasoned collector. Bah..!
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It's an accumulation, dude, not a collection. Tough!:p

You don't even think like a collector, in most cases, but you HAVE a collection of Hill Pearce knives. You can get pissed at semantics, but you have not made a convincing argument for "your collection".

What "problem" of collecting does yours solve? How do you "define" the collection, what is it representing, and besides the afformentioned Pearce, grouping, what do the other "sub" groups represent?

Other than accumulating quality, you have a grouping of quality knives.

I, for instance, have an Orphan subgroup representing the work of Burt Foster.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

Best Regards,
 
Dictionary definition : objects held by collector: a set of objects collected for their interest, value, or beauty.
This includes accumulations I suppose.
After a few years of customs I am leaning toward Arizona makers as a focus point.
 
Kohai999 said:
What "problem" of collecting does yours solve? How do you "define" the collection, what is it representing, and besides the afformentioned Pearce, grouping, what do the other "sub" groups represent?
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Steven,

Real simple: Why are all these aspects important to define a collector? Representation is a solution looking for a problem. No, I don't get it.

Coop
 
Where does 'hoarding' fit in? :D

However, I do find it much harder now to part with just about any piece than when I started accumulating/collecting/hoarding...

-Michael
 
SharpByCoop said:
Steven,

Real simple: Why are all these aspects important to define a collector? Coop
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Because they are. I didn't make them that way, I didn't/don't define it. It just is.

It's like being an "artist" or a "dancer". How much of it do you have to do before you are one, or, is a person a Ninja just because they call themselves one. They COULD be a ninja, just a really sucky one.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
See, you are making my point. The answer is--it's nebulous. There is no clear definition besides: It just is.

That said, you can't lay a criteria of diversity of being: That just isn't.

Yup, I know what you are getting at and I like your analogy to the artist and dancer. And it IS a question of semantics. But.... one of the prompting points that probably pointed Peter to start this thread was to help guide new collectors into the fold so they don't make mistakes and continue to aspire. Diversity, I'll submit, is NOT a negative qualification.

This really sounds like snobbery to pronounce: "I am a collector of American ABS Mastersmith forged bowies. That is all I care for, as I am a collector. Times past I had other well-made custom knives and they didn't align with my collection, so I was only an accumulator. Harrrumph!"

This is not a quote YOU or Peter made, but this is how *I* read your statements. Yes, it is interpretation.

Point being--do we need to make this a premise of a smart collector?

Regards,

Coop
 
When I started off, I had already had an interest in custom knives that had been germinating for over thirty years, so I had already developed a fair bit of knowledge about who were the most respected and sought after makers. I had been following prices for years as well, but only because I wanted to know how much the knives I was interested in were going to cost me. When I finally did take the plunge and purchased my first custom it was after deciding that I wanted to collect tactical folders. This was something I did for a couple of years, but my interest shifted to forged knives, and soon to forged bowies. This has been the focus of my collecting for the last three years.

At first I had absolutely no interest in the future resale value of my knives, but as time went along, and as I became more educated, I became much more interested in that aspect of collecting. I still purchase only knives that I like. Have never, and will never purchase a knife based upon being able to make a good return on it.

In the beginning I figured that I could good basic knives and keep the cost to a mximum of $500.00. I soon realized that this was not going to be possible. It was at that time that I increased my upper limit to around $1000.00. I soon took a liking to pattern welded steel and ivory and the ceiling went up to $1500.00. Now the only limit I put on the price I am willing to spend is how much I figure I can save in the time it will take for my knife to be ready.
 
So where is the line of sufficient specificity for being a collector drawn?

a.) I collect knives

b.) I collect custom knives

c.) I collect custom knives, though only forged bowies.

d.) I collect forged bowies, though only by ABS makers

e.) I collect forged bowies, by ABS makers, with a visible hamon

f.) I collect forged bowies, by ABS smiths who put on a hamon and stag handles (and certainly *never* giraffe bone)

g.) I collect knives, some folders and some fixed blades; almost all custom but a couple of productions that delight me, though I tend to gravitate and concentrate on several specific makers, maybe even to the exception of others.




And where is the line for being a real ninja? :D

-Michael
a stinkin' newbie
 
I don't have the cash to throw around for collecting customs for the most part, but I've had several and have ordered several. For me the fun is in the finding and having, even if I don't keep the knife (Which I don't do for long, production or custom). I like to pass knives on, I give a lot of them away, and I just like the community.
 
I'm with Coop, I collect quality. That is a theme! :D

I don't have the money I'd need to collect a specific type of knife. The only type of knife that I'd "collect" would be art daggers, and considering I've only been able to purchase one that doesn't make for much of a "collection".
 
Chefget said:
So where is the line of sufficient specificity for being a collector drawn?
-Michael
a stinkin' newbie
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Wherever you choose to draw it.

P

-------------------------

Coop,

You may certainly define your collection by choosing not to define it. I think perhaps you read A LOT more into my initial comment than was actually there. I suppose that you take after Isabella Stewart Gardiner, http://www.gardnermuseum.org/ , whose collection scruplously avoided definition. However, you have also demonstrated your capacity to take your collecting to the other extreme, with your intense concentation on Mr. Pierce.

I do not collect folders by choice. Do I do this because they are in some manner unworthy of my attention? No, it is because they would require from me a vast amount of time, energy and interest that I am simply not prepared to invest. Specialisation and definition, permit an old mentally defective geezer, such as myself, to acquire a working degree of expertise in a small aspect of custom knife collecting. Which I HAVE FOUND to be a great help to me, and could possibly be of help to a new collector starting out.

Your favorite ABS Fixed Blade SNOB ;),

P
 
I'm finding that my collection is consisting of knives moreso for their workmanship, rather than any specific style. I buy what I like, but it has to be near perfect in grind, and fit and finish. Beyond that, it's whatever appeals to me at the time. Could be a forged blade, or it could be some tactical style Mall Ninja wannabe combat knife. ;) :)
 
If collecting diversity counts, I think I could qualify. I've got knives in my collection from a Bill Herndon damascus bowie to a H. J. Schneider Thumb-Dimple Fighter to a Buster Warenski Half-Scale Samuel Bell to an ivory handled carved damascus dagger by Robert Crowder to a Cobra knife by Harold Corby to the third knife (a hunter) ever made by Jim Rodebaugh. No two knives are even close!
 
SharpByCoop said:
Hi Peter. Respectfully we will disagree.

I am a collector of custom handmade knives (forget the nomenclature for a moment), by every definition. My tastes have matured, and my buying habits have been refined over time, but I have spent and continue to spend lots of discretionary income on this artistry and craft.

Besides quality, my collection does not have a specific focus. I have hand-finished pieces from Tai Goo and Daniel Winkler to hi-tech folders from Jeffrey Harkins, Kevin Wilkins, and RJ Martin. Slipjoints from Bob Ogg, Hunters from D'Holder, tactical folders from Boguszewski, art knives from David Broadwell, and a carving set from William Burger. By every definition it is a VERY diverse collection. But.... it IS a collection, not an accumulation.

Every piece cost me lots of money, they are ALL quality makers, and frankly I really resent being labeled as an accumulator--as if those of you who deal in one specific genre have matured to the point of being a veteran and seasoned collector. Bah..!

There are wonderful things we can talk about in learning how to spot specific pieces that won't disappoint you or give you buyer's remorse, which is more to the point of this thread. But I will not let the notion that a diverse collector is necessarily a rookie. Not so.

Coop
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Let me start by saying everyone should collect / accumulate whatever style or STYLES of knives that bring them pleasure. Because collecting / accumulating anything should be primarily about enjoyment.
My collection is extremely focused on Forged / ABS / Mastersmith / Bowie; Hunters / Damascus / Engraved knives. And then there’s my Daniel Winkler; Karen Shook / Bowie; Beltknife / With Winkler Display Stands collection.

There are three reasons why my collections are so focused.

• One, (good or bad) I just like for things to appear organized rather then scattered about.

• Two, as a Collector / Investor (notice, I always put collector first) I feel you need to be an expert in a particular commodity to invest in it successfully. (O, NO; I just said the “I” word again). I learned this from buying and collecting Corvettes, where the difference between either making a good living at it or going broke after a couple of bad purchases is solely your degree of expertise. So I advise new collectors to study the many types and styles of knives to determine what their interest are, learn all you can about that particular sector of knives and focus your collection on them. I think that’s good sound advice for a new collector to insure they don’t end up disenchanted with a hodge podge of knives that are worth 40% of what they paid for them. Remember Coop, the average collector doesn’t have the advantage you have of seeing, examining and handling the best of every style of knife made on a regular basis. This may have been a substancial factor in your creating an extremely nice very diversified collection.

• And last, the most important reason my collection is so focused is because I love forged knives. To me, they hold a historical value in that knives have been made this way since the beginning of time (I know the very first knives were stone and made by stock removal). Most all knives interest me, as you notice from my post, however just not enough to buy them in most cases.
 
Now that I'm a "vet" I'm kicking myself for not knowing what I had when I was a "newb" :(
 
Hmmm, I have heard this whole "you need to be focused otherwise you are not a..." argument before.

It was when I walked into a stock agency with a portfolio of my photography. I was told I should only bring in one subject matter. I thought this was ridiculous :jerkit: . I don't see why I need to limit myself and my interest just because others want to put the concept in a box and label it in a very limited fashion. Especially as an amateur. Yes, I am both an amateur photographer and knife collector - why, because I do it for the fun of it and what I get out of it on a feel-good dare I say "spiritual" level, not on a ROI level. Just figured I would make some money on the side with the photography thing - as long as it didn't impact my joy of it.

As to my "collection" - it is quite diverse even though I tend mostly towards fixed blades. Within that though there are very different styles from forged with hamon to damascus to stainless and many different handle and blade styles as well. Certainly there are some sub-groups within the collection, but that is only natural.

Now if someone else does not want to call that a collection - that's their problem. It is a collection to me and to Webster (see below).

From Webster's Online:
Collection
Several things grouped together.
also
In common usage, a collection is any group of items that has one or more properties in common. For example, paintings from the same artist, or coins from Germany before 1900, see collecting and collectible.


Even more telling - collecting
Collecting is a hobby consisting of the acquisition of items of a particular category and organizing or displaying them. These collections are often highly organized and carefully cataloged.

Some collectors choose to focus on a specific subtopic within their area of general interest, for example 19th Century postage stamps, milk bottle labels from Sussex, or Mongolian harnesses and tack. Others prefer to keep a more general collection, accumulating any or all Star Trek merchandise, or postage stamps from all countries of the world.

Most of the common collecting areas have specialized commercial dealers that trade in the items being collected, as well as in any tools or display mechanisms that collectors use. Many of these dealers started as collectors themselves, then turned their hobby into a profession.

Here are some of the collections often made:
...
Weapon collecting
* firearms
* knives
...


Yup, straight out of Webster's Online. This definitely supports Coop's point. Every point above is met in Coop's collecting (not Coop's accumulating ;) ). Also interesting that Webster calls it a hobby, not an investment strategy.


Back to the original thread topic:
What I have learned over my relative short time (I am by no means a veteran but not quite the newbie anymore either):
I pay a lot more attention to the little fine details when inspecting a knife (and before buying).
 
Having begun with the knife collecting "bug" with our usual trip to the Canadian National Exhibition in August 1980 in the Arts/Crafts building over the years this little "virus" has infested itself upon our household and spread throughout the many areas of the house so that few don't have knives on display.

Do I have a collection or an accumulation or both. BOTH!!

Do I have a collection of knives or a collection of art? BOTH!!

All the knives are displayed openly or in drawers -- most of which deal with specific types of knives -- folders, fighters, bowies, Canadian, specific maker etc.

Are there themes? YUP!! Forged blades, Fighters, Bowies, Hunters, Art Knives, Folders, Canadian, specicif makers.

Oh, yes, and of course we have other collections -- glass, paintings, lithos, Native Canadian/American, Inuit, Oriental, pottery, woodwork.

A number of years ago the Art Gallery of Ontario had what was known as the Barnes Exhibit. At that time, also, there was a TV program about the Barnes Exhibit where it was mentioned and shown the "Barnes Wall" which was a wall in the makers home that had a variety of art work on or in front of a wall in his home. Picking myself up off the floor -- Wow!! I have had one of those for many years -- Gee, Knives were involved too.

Do I collect? Likely.

Knives are displayed to fit in with all aspects of all of the artwork that is collected. Knives can be displayed at a knife show that may have a variety of themes.

Next weekend at the Canadian Knifemakers Guild I will have 3 different displays over the 3 day period of events including Friday night -- Canadian made knives, Saturday will be Forged Fixed blades and Sunday will be Folders.

This knife by Thomas Haslinger will fit into 2 categories -- Canadian and Folders so it will be seen twice.

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This one by Brian Lyttle will again be seen twice -- Canadian and Forged Fixed Blades

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If so desired, I could create another display of Art Knives and both knives would fit there.

Brians knife has a wonderful sheath and so could easily be fitted into a display of knives and their sheaths which would contain also this forged fixed blade

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both of which could also and will be in the Canadian display.

Thus for any collector, hopefully it can be seen how a collection may develop and change and evolve over time and knives may fit into many different sub-collections all of which can be enjoyed daily by the collector and anyone having the opportunity to either view the "real" thing or hopefully the images presented here or in other places.
 
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