The Duellist

[golok]

In a real sword-fight, it is my educated guess that the experienced duellist won't be too much of a gentleman. That means he won't be just sticking it to you with his blade.

He would probably try to trip you with an unexpected kick to your ankle, shin or knee, whichever is closer. Or, if he grapples with you in a sword-lock, he may just spit into your eyes to gain a momentary advantage.

The duellist fights to win. In a proper competition where there are standard procedures with regard to gentlemen's duel, I suppose both parties are expected to behave themselves.

In a match where the loser ends up in the grave, the sword is an extension of your arm (right one) and the left may very well whip up a dirk from his boot!

Fight to win all the time. The duellist's code? It doesn't exist, at least not for him.

A controversial issue in any case.

 

[Metis]

Aldo Nadi was a noted fencer and duellist around the turn of the century.

in Christoph Amptberger's book Secret History of the Sword there are two pictures of Nadi: one shows him 'on guard' in perfect form, the other shows him in a duel looking like a contortionist using terrible form. but the bad form gave him the greatest/safest attack when he needed it.

there are no rules when you might get killed.

 

[Spada e Pugnale]

In a real sword-fight, it is my educated guess that the experienced duellist won't be too much of a gentleman. That means he won't be just sticking it to you with his blade.

He would probably try to trip you with an unexpected kick to your ankle, shin or knee, whichever is closer. Or, if he grapples with you in a sword-lock, he may just spit into your eyes to gain a momentary advantage.

The duellist fights to win. In a proper competition where there are standard procedures with regard to gentlemen's duel, I suppose both parties are expected to behave themselves.

In a match where the loser ends up in the grave, the sword is an extension of your arm (right one) and the left may very well whip up a dirk from his boot!

Fight to win all the time. The duellist's code? It doesn't exist, at least not for him.

A controversial issue in any case.

Hi Golok,

Actually, in formal duels, there are usually rules and restrictions on what you can and cannot do--and your seconds (as well as the seconds of your opponent), are there to help enforce that.

A duel should not be confused with a pub brawl, or a raid by brigands on a highway.

Peace,

S e P

 

[manowar669]

Yep, that's why the seconds are there, among other things. Also, if a duel was being fought over a point of honor, think what it would do for your honor once word got out that you fought in a somewhat less than gentlemanly manner.

 

[T. Lux]

Acceptable behavior in formal duels varied from century to century and from culture to culture. The 15th century Italian and German manuals clearly depict the use of kicking, striking, and joint-locks in the course of combat. However, while this differs markedly from the rules of modern olympic strip fencing, it is best not to overstate the importance or novelty of these techniques. These were part of the swordsmen's arsenal and occasionally permitted non-fatal conclusions to some arguments, but distance, timing, and practiced skill with one's weapon and one's body were likely far more decisive than novel "dirty tricks".

 

[Spada e Pugnale]

Acceptable behavior in formal duels varied from century to century and from culture to culture. The 15th century Italian and German manuals clearly depict the use of kicking, striking, and joint-locks in the course of combat. However, while this differs markedly from the rules of modern olympic strip fencing, it is best not to overstate the importance or novelty of these techniques. These were part of the swordsmen's arsenal and occasionally permitted non-fatal conclusions to some arguments, but distance, timing, and practiced skill with one's weapon and one's body were likely far more decisive than novel "dirty tricks".

T.,

By "formal duels", I meant the later illegal swordfights (from the 16th century onwards), as opposed to the earlier judicial combats that you describe. In any case, both types of conflict had rules.

However, you should also keep in mind that the authors of those "15th century Italian and German manuals" were concerned not only with judicial combat, but also with fighting for personal self-defense and warfare.

Peace,

S e P

 

[FullerH]

Hi Golok,

Actually, in formal duels, there are usually rules and restrictions on what you can and cannot do--and your seconds (as well as the seconds of your opponent), are there to help enforce that.

A duel should not be confused with a pub brawl, or a raid by brigands on a highway.

Peace,

S e P

Not all duels were so well overseen by the Seconds. James Bowie was a Second at the famous "Sandbar Fight" below Natchez, and he was wounded seven times, killing one man by disembowling him. Of course, this was on the American Frontier of the time, and things tended to be a bit more rough and tumble than in Europe. Please see this article for more details: http://www.fieldandstream.com/fieldstream/hunting/article/0,13199,581686,00.html

 

[knightsteel]

In a real sword-fight, it is my educated guess that the experienced duellist won't be too much of a gentleman. That means he won't be just sticking it to you with his blade.

He would probably try to trip you with an unexpected kick to your ankle, shin or knee, whichever is closer. Or, if he grapples with you in a sword-lock, he may just spit into your eyes to gain a momentary advantage.

The duellist fights to win. In a proper competition where there are standard procedures with regard to gentlemen's duel, I suppose both parties are expected to behave themselves.

In a match where the loser ends up in the grave, the sword is an extension of your arm (right one) and the left may very well whip up a dirk from his boot!

Fight to win all the time. The duellist's code? It doesn't exist, at least not for him.

A controversial issue in any case.

Such behavior would have violated the code. Accordingly your own seconds would have been honor bound to slay you.

Daniel

 

[Spada e Pugnale]

Not all duels were so well overseen by the Seconds. James Bowie was a Second at the famous "Sandbar Fight" below Natchez, and he was wounded seven times, killing one man by disembowling him. Of course, this was on the American Frontier of the time, and things tended to be a bit more rough and tumble than in Europe. Please see this article for more details: http://www.fieldandstream.com/fieldstream/hunting/article/0,13199,581686,00.html

Fuller,

There will always be exceptions to the rule.

However, one of the main reasons for bringing seconds with you was to help prevent things like the Sandbar Fight from happening. It obviously didn't always work out that way, but that was the general idea.

If you look at the original code duello, it was practiced around the use of the complex-hilted, cut-and-thrust spada, which was the ancestor of the rapier. Eventually, the rapier became the premier weapon for the duello. After that, the smallsword took over in France, and its use spread to most other parts of Western Europe, including Northern Italy (though in Spain, and in Southern Italy, the use of the rapier was retained).

Peace,

S e P

 

[FullerH]

And that is why I did enter the following caveat: "Of course, this was on the American Frontier of the time, and things tended to be a bit more rough and tumble than in Europe." I did so because I was well aware that there was a difference in the cultures and in the people involved.