The Ferrari in Farmer Brown's barn

jdm61

jdm61

itinerant metal pounder
Joined
Aug 12, 2005
Messages
47,357
Or "Even a blind hog finds an acorn occasionally":D This, my friends, is a true story. I managed to buy a somewhat beat up 1960's Bill Moran Airman fighter which is pictured below. As you can see, the blade is gray and has a bit of surface rust, but no pitting. The tip has a tiny chip out of it and the edge looks like someone tried to sharpen it with a cinder block:grumpy: The ad on Ebay said that "it was found without a sheath" and this made me curious. I ended up paying about half of what one in better shape with a sheath would go for these days. I am delighted as I have wanted a Moran fighter for years, and this model was one of the 3 or 4 types at the top of my list. But I was dying to find out where this knife came from. I found out tonight. The seller was actually the broker of this knife and was selling it for a customer. The guy is an Ebay regular and usually trades in Randalls. His customer is a plumber who works for the seller on his job site. Apparently this plumber was working at a campground up in Wisconsin last Halloween. He found what was described as a "scary" holiday poster stuck to a tree with........yep, you guessed it.......our little knife. I guess that someone thought that this would make the party announcement look more spooky or something:jerkit: So our plumber friend takes it home and puts it in his dresser drawer. When he finds out that our seller is a knife guy, he brings it to him. The rest, as they say, is history. So........what we have is three very happy men.....the windfall owner, the selling broker and the buyer (moi!) who now has a Moran in his collection. And lest we forget, we also have one oblivious, brain dead cheesehead skulking about the woods of Wisconsin with his pointy little skull tucked up his rectum:D I hope that one day in the future he reads an article somewhere about how valuable the knife that he left stuck in an oak tree somewhere in the boonies of the Badger State..........and proceeds to have an aneurism:thumbup:
 
nice find. I never get good deals like that. My family's motto is 'buy high, sell low.'

you must be a happy camper
 
Dude, I am psyched!!!! I missed two older Morans on Ebay a while back.....one went for $5600 and the other for $6000. My limit was $5000 on both. Also passed on an ST23 for $10K. The guy who left this knife in the true has to be the DUMBEST white man on the face of the planet:D It had someone's initals carved into the pommel, so this guy probably left his dad's uncle's or neighbor's Vietnam carry knife in the woods.:eek:
 
Well, I hope the previous owner DOESN'T read this, because (as stupid as it is to do such a thing with any knife, etc, etc), he could simply claim that the knife was NOT abandoned, but used as part of a promotional display and that the knife was STOLEN from that display. (I think there's precedent for the retained ownership of a sign/display and everything attached to it whether it's a political sign or movie poster or holiday display).

He could easily argue that regardless of its real value, he never intended to abandon that knife or the poster and I think he could very well win that argument in court. In fact I think he probably WOULD win unless that holiday poster actually said, "this knife is free, please take it." He could also win if it is claimed (true or not) that some kid used it on the sign without the true owner's permission. Either way I think you could find yourself on the seriously short end of the stick because you have the knife and it doesn't matter how much you paid for it or what it's worth. It would still technically belong to the original owner.

Just something to keep in mind when publishing this story.
 
JCaswell said:
Well, I hope the previous owner DOESN'T read this, because (as stupid as it is to do such a thing with any knife, etc, etc), he could simply claim that the knife was NOT abandoned, but used as part of a promotional display and that the knife was STOLEN from that display. (I think there's precedent for the retained ownership of a sign/display and everything attached to it whether it's a political sign or movie poster or holiday display).

He could easily argue that regardless of its real value, he never intended to abandon that knife or the poster and I think he could very well win that argument in court. In fact I think he probably WOULD win unless that holiday poster actually said, "this knife is free, please take it." He could also win if it is claimed (true or not) that some kid used it on the sign without the true owner's permission. Either way I think you could find yourself on the seriously short end of the stick because you have the knife and it doesn't matter how much you paid for it or what it's worth. It would still technically belong to the original owner.

Just something to keep in mind when publishing this story.
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Look up "holder in due course" lol
 
JCaswell said:
Well, I hope the previous owner DOESN'T read this, because (as stupid as it is to do such a thing with any knife, etc, etc), he could simply claim that the knife was NOT abandoned, but used as part of a promotional display and that the knife was STOLEN from that display. (I think there's precedent for the retained ownership of a sign/display and everything attached to it whether it's a political sign or movie poster or holiday display).

He could easily argue that regardless of its real value, he never intended to abandon that knife or the poster and I think he could very well win that argument in court. In fact I think he probably WOULD win unless that holiday poster actually said, "this knife is free, please take it." He could also win if it is claimed (true or not) that some kid used it on the sign without the true owner's permission. Either way I think you could find yourself on the seriously short end of the stick because you have the knife and it doesn't matter how much you paid for it or what it's worth. It would still technically belong to the original owner.

Just something to keep in mind when publishing this story.
Click to expand...

and come on down to Florida.......small claims court here is wonderful...lol
 
JCaswell said:
Well, I hope the previous owner DOESN'T read this, because (as stupid as it is to do such a thing with any knife, etc, etc), he could simply claim that the knife was NOT abandoned, but used as part of a promotional display and that the knife was STOLEN from that display. (I think there's precedent for the retained ownership of a sign/display and everything attached to it whether it's a political sign or movie poster or holiday display).

He could easily argue that regardless of its real value, he never intended to abandon that knife or the poster and I think he could very well win that argument in court. In fact I think he probably WOULD win unless that holiday poster actually said, "this knife is free, please take it." He could also win if it is claimed (true or not) that some kid used it on the sign without the true owner's permission. Either way I think you could find yourself on the seriously short end of the stick because you have the knife and it doesn't matter how much you paid for it or what it's worth. It would still technically belong to the original owner.

Just something to keep in mind when publishing this story.
Click to expand...

I will modify my statement......I hope he reads the article AFTER the statute of limitations has tolled.....andif Wisconsin is like most places, I probably only have 11 months to wait:D
 
jdm61 said:
I will modify my statement......I hope he reads the article AFTER the statute of limitations has tolled.....andif Wisconsin is like most places, I probably only have 11 months to wait:D
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I'm glad such a treasure is being appreciated now. It would have been nice if the guy that took it off the tree bothered to track down the owner of the sign (sounds like it was advertising something, so that shouldn't have been too hard to do) and offered him $10 for the thing. That way someone can't say, "Hey, that's my knife with the initials in the pommel" or whatever, years down the road. Of course, that probably won't happen since they didn't know/care what they had to begin with.

It occurs to me that, in case you ever have trouble along these lines, it would be handy to know two things:
Was the knife removed some time AFTER the event being advertised? (Then it could reasonably assumed to have been abandoned.)
Was the sign posted illegally/was the original taker someone that could, conceivably, have been acting in an official capacity removing/confiscating it?
It may be worth knowing these details so, as unlikely as it is, if someone decides to make a move on your knife, that original 'exchange' could be shown to be legitimate.

Good luck. It's truly a neat little treasure --the kind of thing you dream about finding at a garage sale!
 
I think somewhat on the same lines as Mr. Caswell.
If the knife was taken on Halloween or there about advertising a Halloween event then I would think the Plumber was more a theif, after all the true owner of the knife has the right to do whatever he wishes with his property. If it had been found in the woods covered with leaves or other debris then it would have appeared to have been lost, not in this case, now was it.
I guess if the plumber would have found a car sitting there with no one setting in the drivers seat, he would have considered it his for the taking also.

Sounds fishy to me.

Bill
 
B . Buxton said:
..... I guess if the plumber would have found a car sitting there with no one setting in the drivers seat, he would have considered it his for the taking also.

Sounds fishy to me.

Bill
Click to expand...

That's an analogy that occurred to me as well. Another one would be plundering the Macy's Christmas display on the street corner because .... well .... that big snowman is worth a lot of money ... so they deserve it?!

Obviously they didn't full appreciate the knife they had, but I don't think a judge, for instance, would consider that relevant when determining ownership.

If I came across this knife/sign in the woods, I'd find the owner of the sign and make him an offer -- "Hey, I really like this little knife. Would you take ...??... for it." They would almost certainly say yes, UNLESS it was some kid using it without permission and the real owner won't part with it. In that case, I'm returning a prized knife to it's owner (I would hope someone would do the same for me).
If you avoid approaching the owner because you're afraid it was not used with permission and is actually appreciated by its REAL owner who won't sell it, what does that make you (the plumber) for taking it off the tree and keeping it?

And what if the legitimate owner sees you want the knife and decides to make a quick buck? What'll that be? $100? (Obviously if it was so poorly used, he can't value it too highly so it won't be much).

I'd consider that a $100 very well spent.
 
Hey......you know those plumbers......always taking knives from defenseless trees:D I am a recovering lawyer so legal minutiae and hair splitting gives me a migraine......who's tree was it? was the knife an invitee or trespassing in the tree trunk, could the state forestry board claim ownership under civil forfeiture laws? Is the tree entitled to dmages for pain and suffering? Is the local weirded out tree hugger entitled for damages for loss of consortium because his favorite knothole was violated by the knife? etc, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah :eek: Torts I bored me back in law school and bores me even more now. Even if the guy did show, unless he could demonstrate that that getting the knife back would be the only way to make him whole (and this would be a neat trick because he stuck it in a tree and left it) his cause of action would likely be a conversion action against the aforementioned plumber for cash money. I'm not exactly losing sleep over this ya know:cool:
 
I've done some trading in fine old guns in the past and it's pretty well understood among the dealers/collectors I know/knew what happens if you end up stuck with stolen property. It's delivered back to the true owner, period. You get nothing for your trouble. If I'm not mistaken, that would be standard in almost all cases involving property deemed to be stolen, which is doubtless what the original owner would claim if he ever Googles "Moran Knife" or "Moran Knife Tree" and this thread pops up. The chain of custody just isn't that important from what I've been told by dealer that have been burned. If you have something that is determined to belong to someone else, you loose.
I wouldn't recommend loosing sleep over anything (I've done plenty of that the last couple years with the baby and all), but the loose ends described in this situation (and especially the fact that they're published on a forum visited by thousands ..... plus the fact that keyword searches on Google tend to bring Bladeforums threads right to the top of the list for good measure), seem to be just the sort of thing that seem bigger and more distressing to me at about 3:00 am. I'm probably just funny that way, though.

Again, good luck filling out the rest of your collection.
 
What a stroke of luck I have been looking all over for that damn knife,called my son all the names under the sun I did when he told me what he had stuck the poster up with!I look forward to being re-united with it soon !!!!



LOL
 
Joe, not to worry, someone dumb enough to leave that knife stuck into a tree won't be smart enough to be here reading your post. Nice score, fella!
 
I wouldn't worry if the particulars were all provided and verifiable.
Did the seller give the name and address of the "plumber"?Was the location of the "camp" provided?Is there anyone else who can verify the "discovery" of the knife? ( This is the reason there are witnesses on documents and the witnesses have to be verifiable )
I seem to remember some other "plumbers" who were "finding" some stuff a few years back....What was the name of that hotel....Oh,Yeah - Watergate!

My wife being a lawyer,and having many legal friends, I can't tell you how many times this. "I found it...(Stuck in a tree,On the ground, In the trunk of a car,etc.)..." shows up as the source of a gun,knife,car,TV,Playstation3,etc.
I can also tell you as a person who knows lots of people in the pawn business,auctioneers,and police personell....If the item is discovered to be stolen it will be returned to the person who filed the theft report.The third party (you) will be out in the cold.

I hope this sale is completely legitimate,and has no problems.But as my Grandmother would say," If it sounds to good to be true,it probably isn't.".
 
Easy way out - publish a three-liner in the classifieds in the area. "Knife found, 9" stuck in tree" etc... If you can default someone on a lawsuit or a divorce by publication, you sure as sh!t should be able to lay claim to lost and found...
 
But what about the tree's rights, man? :eek: But seriously, folks....I'm not worried. Whovever stuck this thing in the tree probably wouldn't ever remember the name Moran, especially since the spelling is so close to a word much more relevant to them........MORON!!!!:D Not sure if the plumber tried to track down the owner, but he did hold on to the knife for over a year before offering it for sale.
 
That knife could very well have originally been lost in a poker game by some drunken city-boy wannabe deerslayer at one of the gazillion "hunter's bars" that dot the Wisconsin countryside and cater to the tourist hunters in deer season. It could have changed hands so many times on Friday nights in exchange for a beer and brat that any concept of "value" was lost in antiquity. It probably got scavenged from the rusty toolbox in the back of a pickup, sheathless, to stick that sign up. "Bubba, we gotta scrounge some knives...."

There are some very interesting parts of Wisconsin. There's even a town that introduces itself as "Poaching Capital of the World", with people proud to have had "no one in the family with a job in 3 generations". Gotta love my cheesehead neighbors.... :D (It's a beautiful state, to be honest. And good people.)
 
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