The Forums are Free - Now Let's Finish This.

Brian_Turner

Brian_Turner

Joined
May 13, 1999
Messages
1,926
So that's done. Hallelujah, the forums are free again!

Most of the people who argued for the free forums did so bemoaning the "community" that they would be losing if the For Sale Forums were to close. And that's great. I truly love this community, and will do whatever I can to help it thrive.

In this painful process, though, we were made aware of a very serious problem that faces our community. Without a source of revenue, our community is facing extinction. Today. Tomorrow. For as long as Mike and Spark are paying tens of thousands of dollars out of their pockets. The bean-counter barbarians are at the gates!

So we, as a community, need to put our minds to help them to solve this problem. And then we, as a community, need to bear down and implement that solution. Faithfully. With appreciation and with a mind that puts the community ahead of the self (We ain't going to war here - just think toward supporting the damn site, OK?). Without dramatic attempts to portray the selected solution as a $1.49 crucifixion.

OK, guys. You wanted to be a community. I had no problem with a usage based tax on specific commerce. What are your ideas?

------------------
AKTI Member #A000832

"Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes, the bear eats you."
 
Excerpted from my reply to the "we're open" announcement on the For Sale forum:

I still stand by the proposition that charging a membership fee would not be the work of the devil - as so many of us have noted, this forum is a primary entertainment source, and well worth a yearly subscription price. For instance, you could let lurkers lurk for free, but charge a membership fee to those who wanted to post, INCLUDING posting to buy knives advertised for sale! People save so much buying used knives here that any true knife-nut would easily make their money back in short order. And most lurkers of good character would soon sign up as members, just to return something for all they receive from the BForum. Not that I am short of ways to dispose of my meager earnings, but if you guys are still puzzling out a solution to the financial support of BF, that's my .02.

[Or my $25.00/year, or whatever]

------------------
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
 
Guys, I've said it before, and I'll say it again - I am not willing to make the entire forums "pay as you go" - they would die tomorrow. Considering the amount of flak we took for just charging $1.49 for people to sell knives, how bad would it get if we charged people just to post?

I'm all for the "careware" concept. If you like spending time here, I'm glad. If you want to help the forums, feel free. I'm not going to ask for handouts though. Heck, look to the right - instead of paying $25 per year, just get a BladeForums.com knife bag, or a hat, or a Sifu, or whatever. Get something physical in return... but make no mistake, every little bit helps out.

Spark

------------------
Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
 
Can I ask a dumb question for a sec?

Part of the problem seems to be that Mike'n'Spark have to operate and maintain a high-end box, with high-end access, controlling 100% of the message traffic for BF.

What if we re-think how to do this?

What I mean is, there's a number of different "forumserver sites" that store message traffic up on a big corporate server somewhere, and get money from ad revenue. Then they encourage people to "add forum capabilities" to whatever site they have, on whatever subject. They don't give a damn about content, they just want hits.

As one example, I run a website on a specific element of gun rights in California. I could attach a "forum" that would offer an alternative feedback/discussion mechanism other than EMail, and linked straight off my site. (I've decided not to; instead, I currently publish info on a good mailing list called CA-Firearms and encourage interested parties to keep in touch there.)

Soooo....what if Spark did something clever? Craft a "unified front end" website that accesses and stores posts up pre-existing massive forum servers? The net results might be fairly similar to what we have now, but the total amount of website and code actually served by Mike'n'Spark might be something under 10 megs or so, maybe even less. At which point, paying modest monthly fees in the $50 range on an ISP's server would work fine...

Among other downsides, the only "ad space" Mike would have control over would be on the "opening screens" that get you into the section you want; once in the actual forums the forumserver is doing it's own ad thing.

Is this at all practical? If so, while losing the existing UBB messages would be a tragedy it would still be preferable to losing *everything*, forever, including the sense of community from this group of PEOPLE. It's the people that make the difference, not the software.

Just food for thought.

In the meantime, I've got another idea brewing not nearly as controversial
smile.gif
that I should be able to announce next week, that might help just a bit...

Jim
 
Jim, that won't work - not if BladeForums.com is going to survive with any sort of semblence to what it is now.

First, we are talking about different formats of messaging.

Second, we are talking about huge amounts of bandwidth - we'll pass over 60gB this month. That requires that we have our own T1 line, which doesn't come cheap - no "freeware" service is going to allow this.

Third, we're unwilling to relinquish control of our content to third party services. We've got over 2.5 gB just in BladeForums.com. You know any freeware services that are going to allow that much storage be used up?

Sorry Jim, I appreciate the sentiment, but that's a no go.

Spark

------------------
Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
 
Spark, I think you are very aware of a principal problem. I have a hypothesis that the internet has created a culture of "free" -- we pay for the internet access and usually nothing else. This is the way it has been, the way it is, and pretty much appears to be the way it will be.

You've got an awesome asset in Bladeforums -- it's a dynamic, growing community -- but I don't know how the owners can really capitalize on it.

I don't think anyone objected to $1.49 to transact a knife. It's just that the classified ad mechanism is alot more awkward and complicated than "post and play". It wasn't "free" enough in terms of time and effort. So, like water seeking the path of least resistance, it just flowed elsewhere. Just my opinion.

For what it's worth, I "click-through" the ads on bladeforums waaayyy more than any other site. I guess because it is a narrowly focused niche site. And I did get a SIFU.
smile.gif
 
Thanks Kevin, I appreciate it
biggrin.gif


You are correct (or we're thinking alike) regarding the free internet issue... I have to agree with you there. Maybe one of these days UBB can get some sort of Authorize.net interface and we'll be able to charge for posting for sale ads through the forums.

Don't forget guys, when you see a banner ad that isn't for a knife site, click on it anyway, because we get paid per click throughs on them. While they aren't the complete solution, they do ad a bit... If you click on 10, we get paid $1.70 and it ads up...
Spark

------------------
Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
 
Wow! Guess I missed it. Thanks Mike & Spark! Reading through the thread sparked a couple questions.

You mentioned banners not knife related earn you guys 'X'....... I was unaware of this (I remember hearing about things like that but truthfully did not know that is how it worked here) but are there any 'other' things like that we should know? Couple clicks to a link is a piece of cake and I/we might find something interesting as well.

Secondly, you mention not wanting to ask for money but could you be a bit more objective regarding individual usage? I have tossed around sending some money or supporting in some way but truthfully don't know how much of your product I use as an 'indvidual'. I would hate to send 'X' and have you just laugh and think I'm a punk....... On the other hand I wouldn't want to pay for my usage and ten others out of ignorance. Could you give an approximate breakdown on 'average' (your personal definition would suffice) use/cost per 'X' amount of hours on the site and 'X' amount of sale/trade posts? You could range it: 'High', 'Mid', 'Low' end user giving range of approximate costs for each. If you are not comfortable posting that in General would you consider a link located on the site for registered members to access or personal email for those interested? The hats and bags are great but do you benefit sufficiently from the sale of these items or is it a wash considering cost vs marketing value?

Thanks again Spark,
Shawn
 
All things being equal, Emanym, I'd rather not have people sending donations at all - something in me just doesn't like the idea of handouts. Mike and I are discussing putting up a patron's page or something along those lines, where you send an amount and we send stuff like bags and hats and such, but that's in the future.

The Non-Knife banner ads are provided by a third party service - as such, I think we get 17 cents per click through. We are not allowed, however, to actively encourage you guys to click on them - so I wouldn't in a million years ever want you guys to just sit there and click. Besides, they are set up so that it doesn't allow the same IP address to click on successive banners and "count"...

For right now, like I said, the best thing is a hat, or a knife bag, or a BladeForums.com knife or something. Maybe some coffee cups...
biggrin.gif


Spark

------------------
Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
 
Originally posted by Spark:
Guys, I've said it before, and I'll say it again - I am not willing to make the entire forums "pay as you go" - they would die tomorrow. Considering the amount of flak we took for just charging $1.49 for people to sell knives, how bad would it get if we charged people just to post?

I'm all for the "careware" concept. If you like spending time here, I'm glad. If you want to help the forums, feel free. I'm not going to ask for handouts though. Heck, look to the right - instead of paying $25 per year, just get a BladeForums.com knife bag, or a hat, or a Sifu, or whatever. Get something physical in return... but make no mistake, every little bit helps out.

Spark
Click to expand...

WOW for 25 bucks we get a free SIFU?

biggrin.gif
biggrin.gif
biggrin.gif


but yes I think it would be great to get something for "free" even though we are actually paying for it, I just think it would be great to get something in return.
 
Spark,
Cool bud, I totally understand. Just wanted to make sure and 'ask' cause it makes me feel like I've at least offered. The hats and bags are kick-ASS and I've just been too lazy getting around to buying them. Besides, after T4 pointed out the small print, I never realized the boon of membership before this. Uhhhhhhhhh, if you get a rash of 'backward' spelled new members it 'definitely' has nothing to do with me or my desire for a 6 pack of Sifus!
wink.gif

If you're ever hankering for some awesome Vegetarian Lasagne you know who to call!
Shawn
 
Personally, I didn't have a problem with paying to sell. I jsut didn't get into the classifieds format. I much more prefer the "old" format.

------------------
If you can't dazzle them with your brilliance,
baffle them with your BS.
 
I agree with Dirk. The old format was much easier to surf through.

Spark and Mike

I love Blade Forums. Awesome site. I already have the hat and bag (the twenty knife bag Thank you very much
smile.gif
).

You guys say the word and I'll cut a check to help support and feed the forums.

John
 
As Jim brought up dumb questions(there is no such thing),I have one.The moderaters who are selling something have a motive.Why do people, such as Jim, become moderaters?I`m sure there some perks, but they can`t be enough to compensate the time.Is it just an ego trip?
 
Hey Spark,

If you don't like the idea of people sending you money for the service you provide, I really need you to come up here and run my local cable company, phone company, and ISP. They sure don't mind raking me across the coals every month. I could use a refreshing change of management to your way of thinking.
wink.gif


I pay an ungodly amount for a TV cable being hooked to the side of my house, powering a box I don't want, and I have no problem with that.

So if you get a check in the mail that simply says "Thank You", don't let it make you uncomfortable. The guy who sent it obviously feels he got his money's worth AND THEN SOME. It's a fair exchange, my friend.

My idea: You and Mike go out and get ordained as ministers and make this "The Church of the Sharper Trinity" or something like that. Then, not only do you get tax free status, all us members of your congregation get to write off our donations!

Now where's that bottle of sacramental wine I opened awhile ago...*hiccup*

 
Spark,

It would seem to me that a flat subscription fee to access the forum would be the way to go. I'd think a fee comparable to a year's subscription to Blade magazine would cover it; approximately 14.95 per year per person?

People not paid up by a certain cut-off date won't have access. Yeah, it's harsh, and some are not going to be happy, but personally I can't think of a better investment for as much as I come here.

Professor.

[This message has been edited by Professor (edited 06-29-2000).]
 
Spark, no prob, I was just kicking a concept's tires
smile.gif
.

As to moderators and what we get:

I ended up in charge of "Community" more or less by accident
smile.gif
. I created the idea while we were all still on KFC, and the guy I had planned for a KFC Community forum that never happened was Mike Turber.

When Mike started designing BF, he figured "Community" was a good idea (general off-topic and fun to avoid loading down Main) so he tapped me.

All I ever got, or expected, was...well, "ego" is as good a term as any
smile.gif
. Now that I'm damn near overloaded with gun rights stuff and can barely keep up with even Community (god, I haven't even been popping in at Bill's HI forum of late!) it's a real neat thing that UBB now allows multiple moderators - VG and the rest have been a big help.

It's all good.

Jim
 
How about a long trial period - say 6 months, then a fee or cutoff? It would allow newbies to come in and get comfortable for a good amount of time at no charge before making a decision on whether or not to keep their "membership".
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top