The Future of Knife Shows?

[Kevin Jones]

Well the show season for 2007 is winding down. There’s the “Spirit of Steel” in the next couple weeks then the “Fisk Micro Show” followed by the “Art Knife International” (AKI).

There are quite a few shows when you think about it. Most seem to be doing quite well, and a couple seem to be struggling a bit. One show that’s doing well is changing its format in spite of its current success.

The trend tends to be going towards shorter one or two day shows and perhaps more emphasis on demonstrations and seminars with a designated single afternoon for knife sales.
I believe this trend can be accredited somewhat to Phil Lobred’s great success with the “AKI”.

Jerry Fisk started his Invitational or “Micro Show” two years ago and has had success with it in that all three shows have sold out and have a waiting list in the event that any regular attendees drop out. Jerry along with a different “rising star” and another established Master have sold out all knives ranging from $350 to about $7500 each year.
It will be interesting to see other “small shows” spring up and if other makers will follow suite.

The Blade Show seems to get stronger each year as do some regional shows.

So what do you think is in the future for Knife Shows?
Please feel free to add and/or challenge any of my points above and share your opinions and views.

Some interesting topics may be:

• Are there currently too many knife shows?

• Are they all too much alike?

• Makers, do you plan to continue to support shows or will you start to be more selective as to which ones you attend?

• Makers, do you find the shows you attend to be financially feasible for you or primarily for promoting your knives?

• Collectors, do you feel knife shows are still as important in today’s internet world where makers and dealers can bring thousands of beautiful knives right into your homes?

• How do you feel about the New Reno Format?

• What is in the future for the Guild Show?

• Do the major shows in other countries differ from here? And if so how?

Thank you for your participation.

 

[Keith Montgomery]

I don't get to enough shows to know if there are too many. I doubt there are too many for collectors, since they like to attend as many as possible. For makers and dealers there can be too many, because the cost of attending these shows can be great.

If they are alike it wouldn't matter to me, because I get to very few shows.

I think the new Reno format is outstanding. One thing that always bothered me about knife shows was that you could get there with a VIP pass and still there would be sold out tables before the show officially started. Not being able to sell knives until the second day means that people that get there the first day will be able to see all the knives (unless they are sold in hotel rooms the night before). I think that is an outstanding idea.

I've never been to the Guild show, but from what I have read and heard, things don't look good. Maybe they will figure out out to resuscitate it, but current attempts don't seem to be having much of a positive effect.

Haven't been to a major Canadian show, so I am not able to help you with that last one.

 

[custombuff]

I am a collector who lives in the Midwest, so I there are only two or three shows I can drive to. As such, I don't get to that many, so I don't think there are too many.

I have never been to a Reno style show, but it sounds like a good idea.

This year, I attended the Blade Show and the Chicago Show (and will probably hit one local show) and I do have one concern. It has been voiced before and even I have ignored it in the past, but I think the point needs more attention.

Even with a VIP pass, a number of more sought after makers are sold out before the doors even open (doesn't seem to matter if you are first through the door). This is quite disheartening and starts to make shows less worth the cost and effort. With deals being made in hotel rooms or dealers walking around the show before the door opens (many have tables), it makes more sought after makers that much more difficult to acquire.

More than once I have wondered why I didn't just stay home and see what popped up on dealer sights. I understand that makers have to make a living and a guaranteed sale is better for them, but without anything on the table to see, shows will suffer for it.

Some makers have gone to lotteries at the show and where this makes sense (due to popularity), I think this is a great idea. That way everyone has a shot. When a maker sells out before the first 50 people are through the door, this makes it harder to justify the trip. It also means that other people new to the hobby are more likely to be turned off. I'm sure if you know the right people, you can work something out, but this isn't a good equation for a hobby that needs more collectors to be interested in it, not to be disheartened by fruitless efforts.

I'm sure a good number of makers, dealers, and long-time collectors of certain makers are quite happy with the current situation, but for the rest of us and the new collector, perhaps it would be more rewarding to just stay home.

This is an unfortunate situation, because--if done right--a show offers an invaluable experience. You get to meet your favorite makers and talk with them in person, you get to actually handle knives (rather than seeing just a photo or two, as even the best photos can't capture every aspect or detail to say nothing of how it feels or how the action works), and you get to meet up with friends to share stories or compare purchases.

A show can (and should) be an irreplaceable experience, but if something isn't done to curb the number of tables that have nothing on them after the first 5 minutes, there will fewer reasons to go.

Nick

 

[Kevin Jones]

I am a collector who lives in the Midwest, so I there are only two or three shows I can drive to. As such, I don't get to that many, so I don't think there are too many.

I have never been to a Reno style show, but it sounds like a good idea.

This year, I attended the Blade Show and the Chicago Show (and will probably hit one local show) and I do have one concern. It has been voiced before and even I have ignored it in the past, but I think the point needs more attention.

Even with a VIP pass, a number of more sought after makers are sold out before the doors even open (doesn't seem to matter if you are first through the door). This is quite disheartening and starts to make shows less worth the cost and effort. With deals being made in hotel rooms or dealers walking around the show before the door opens (many have tables), it makes more sought after makers that much more difficult to acquire.

More than once I have wondered why I didn't just stay home and see what popped up on dealer sights. I understand that makers have to make a living and a guaranteed sale is better for them, but without anything on the table to see, shows will suffer for it.

Some makers have gone to lotteries at the show and where this makes sense (due to popularity), I think this is a great idea. That way everyone has a shot. When a maker sells out before the first 50 people are through the door, this makes it harder to justify the trip. It also means that other people new to the hobby are more likely to be turned off. I'm sure if you know the right people, you can work something out, but this isn't a good equation for a hobby that needs more collectors to be interested in it, not to be disheartened by fruitless efforts.

I'm sure a good number of makers, dealers, and long-time collectors of certain makers are quite happy with the current situation, but for the rest of us and the new collector, perhaps it would be more rewarding to just stay home.

This is an unfortunate situation, because--if done right--a show offers an invaluable experience. You get to meet your favorite makers and talk with them in person, you get to actually handle knives (rather than seeing just a photo or two, as even the best photos can't capture every aspect or detail to say nothing of how it feels or how the action works), and you get to meet up with friends to share stories or compare purchases.

A show can (and should) be an irreplaceable experience, but if something isn't done to curb the number of tables that have nothing on them after the first 5 minutes, there will fewer reasons to go.

Nick

You make some good points Nick, but there's more makers than you think that will not sell before shows.

The Reno show, even under the old format is a good example where you can walk into the show and buy knives right off the tables of Jerry Fisk, Harvey Dean, Tim Hancock, Steve Dunn, Burt Foster, Daniel Winkler and many others. Even at the Blade show, VIPs can get a crack at many of the top maker's knives, its just they give out so many VIP badges you have to wait in line for hours and even then you need to know just where your target knife is in order to be first.

It can help to contact your favorite maker weeks before the show to chat and find what he's bringing, sometimes this may give you a little edge in getting that special piece.

You touched on the fact that makers sometimes will take the sure thing especially at the smaller shows. Can't hardly blame them as we are talking about their paychecks here. Even the veteran collectors have paid their dues over many years to earn an advantage. Not saying its right but just why it happens.

 

[jdm61]

There are always complaints about show knives being "pre-sold' In many cases, the maker is bringing the knife to the show to deliver it to the customer because it is convenient for both and the makers get to show some more samples of their work. The thing about a show that you do not get from buying a knife from a purveyor, off the web or even ordering directly from the maker is that you get to see the knives and, perhaps more importantly, you get to meet the knife maker. I thnk that there are is more than adequate opportunity for knife buyers in the US to go to shows, be they the big ones like Blade and the "super regional" shows like the Arkansas show and SOS, or local shows, either stand alone or ones that are part of guns shows. It seems to me that some parts of the world could use a few more. Europe has some pretty good show it would appear, with new ones popping up everywhere from the Netherlands to the Czech Republic. But the UK seems to be a bit short on shows, which is surprising considering the bushcraft craze. That may be because of concern about the anti-knife laws.
I cannot tell you which way the Guild show is going. When I went in '92, it was huge and getting bigger. I did not go back until '05 and I was shocked at how much smaller it was. it probably wasn't any bigger than the annual Gator Cutlery Club show in Lakeland.

 

[cockroachfarm]

I no longer go to knife shows to buy knives . I go to meet my friends - fellow collectors and knife makers.

Sure, I'll buy a knife from a show table if it strikes my fancy, but if I want something specific I contact the maker directly. The shows I don't miss are Atlanta and Chicago (and the CKG Spring Show in Toronto); Las Vegas and smaller shows I try to attend when it suits my schedule. "Pre-show" deals? Veteran collectors are probably just as guilty as dealers.

Every "name" maker (folders) I have talked to this year has said they will be cutting back on the number of shows they will be attending in 2008. It's about time and money. Mostly time.

 

[Don Hanson III]

Show promoters need to change with the times. There are more shows, more dealers and more knives available than ever.

I have sold plenty of knives pre-show in the past, but never all my knives. I have great respect for the collectors who travel to shows and will always have available pieces on my table when the doors open.

I could have sold out early but I had all my knives on my table at the Chicago show when the doors opened.

I will be doing less shows next year due to, too many orders. But I love knife shows and will continue to support them. After staying home for a few months, I start itching for a show. Visiting with friends and hunting for handle materials is great fun

 

[custombuff]

I think Don has the right idea and I commend him for putting it into practice (which I am sure takes discipline when cash is being waived in your face). I understand that the sale is the food on the table for a lot of makers, but the ones I am referring to (the ones that sell out before the show starts) by my definition are in no danger of not selling all of their stuff. It's the difference between letting "just anyone" have a shot, or selling to the dealers and collectors with connections pre-show. I understand that some of the knives the makers bring are not intended for the show (I picked up several at Blade myself). Its also different if the maker didn't have time to prepare for the show and has an empty table because they didn't finish anything for the show (although I wish this wouldn't happen either).

I a referring to the makers that brought knives to the show to sell and they are gone before the doors open. I can see setting one or two aside for the collector that the maker has a special relationship with. I'm saying that when there are empty tables--even when you rush through the door--you start to wonder about the payoff of the travel. Having knives on the tables to handle that are already sold is OK, but a small consolation.

I'm not just complaining here. In part the future of knife shows was the topic of this thread. And I'm saying that for new collectors that don't have friends to see at the shows, not having knives there as well seems to diminish the point of going. Sure, you can find out what a great guy maker XYZ is, but without the opportunity to buy his stuff, it's still frustrating. This hobby needs to grow a larger collector base if it's going to prosper. And a lot of people are turned off by the lack of knives on some makers tables at shows.

Of course this isn't all makers--not even close to a majority--but enough of the popular ones have an issue with this that I feel bares addressing.

Nick

 

[Kevin Jones]

Show promoters need to change with the times. There are more shows, more dealers and more knives available than ever.

I have sold plenty of knives pre-show in the past, but never all my knives. I have great respect for the collectors who travel to shows and will always have available pieces on my table when the doors open.

I could had sold out early but I had all my knives on my table at the Chicago show when the doors opened.

I will be doing less shows next year due to, too many orders. But I love knife shows and will continue to support them. After staying home for a few months, I start itching for a show. Visiting with friends and hunting for handle materials is great fun

People are always commenting and wondering how you always have such great ivory. However, I feel it's not by accident or luck, as you love and know ivory. It seems you have almost turned looking for it into a hobby.

This is of great benefit to the collector in that not only do we get beautiful ivory, but you have almost never had a piece fail because of your expertise in selecting, caring for and working it.

Keep it coming:thumbup:

 

[Don Hanson III]

Nick, I agree with all you've said.

Kevin, without good fossil ivory, knifemaking would be boring to me

 

[Kevin Jones]

I think Don has the right idea and I commend him for putting it into practice (which I am sure takes discipline when cash is being waived in your face). I understand that the sale is the food on the table for a lot of makers, but the ones I am referring to (the ones that sell out before the show starts) by my definition are in no danger of not selling all of their stuff. It's the difference between letting "just anyone" have a shot, or selling to the dealers and collectors with connections pre-show. I understand that some of the knives the makers bring are not intended for the show (I picked up several at Blade myself). Its also different if the maker didn't have time to prepare for the show and has an empty table because they didn't finish anything for the show (although I wish this wouldn't happen either).

I a referring to the makers that brought knives to the show to sell and they are gone before the doors open. I can see setting one or two aside for the collector that the maker has a special relationship with. I'm saying that when there are empty tables--even when you rush through the door--you start to wonder about the payoff of the travel. Having knives on the tables to handle that are already sold is OK, but a small consolation.

I'm not just complaining here. In part the future of knife shows was the topic of this thread. And I'm saying that for new collectors that don't have friends to see at the shows, not having knives there as well seems to diminish the point of going. Sure, you can find out what a great guy maker XYZ is, but without the opportunity to buy his stuff, it's still frustrating. This hobby needs to grow a larger collector base if it's going to prosper. And a lot of people are turned off by the lack of knives on some makers tables at shows.

Of course this isn't all makers--not even close to a majority--but enough of the popular ones have an issue with this that I feel bares addressing.

Nick

Great points Nick, as "the new collectors" is who I see driving this industry forward and the major shows is our chance to take the new collector or the curious to the next level.
To your friends point, I remember my first shows where I didn't know a sole and it can be boring and even intimidating at the large shows not knowing anyone. That's why forums such as this are so good in getting to make friends.

I would like to possibly organize a dinner or a gathering of "new collectors" at say the blade show.

New collectors should not be bashful in approaching even the most well known of knife makers.
I can remember Daniel Winkler and Karen Shook talking and educating me at shows, David Anders took me to a Ivory dealer's kiosk and basically gave me a lesson on how to select ivory during one of my first shows.

I called Jerry Fisk one day weeks before my second Blade Show just to tell him how interested I was in his knives. I was surprised when he answered the phone and chated with me for about twenty minutes. He by no means committed to selling me a knife at the Blade show, but told me where his table was located and said he would look forward to meeting me. I was lucky enough to buy my first Fisk at that show.

Also at that same Blade Show, I was chating with Jay and Nancy Hendrickson while examining their knives when Bill Moran walked up behind their table and entered the conversation. It just floored me that Bill Moran would show any interest in someone that obviously didn't have a clue about custom knives.
Well if I wasn't a custom knife nut before that show, I sure was afterwords and have been every since.

 

[EIDO]

I travelled far to my first show to see and handle first class knives.
I wanted to FEEL the balance, handles, etc. of the very best, to begin to understand what they fully comprehend and can put into practice in their design and execution.
The tables were almost all empty, except for notebooks of PHOTOS of knives.
Why not put SOLD signs on knives and keep ALL of them on view until the show is over? Of course they are going to be one day affairs if no knives are left on day two!

 

[cockroachfarm]

"....Why not put SOLD signs on knives and keep ALL of them on view until the show is over?..."

I would also prefer to see it work that way - however, most collectors, once they have bought the knife, don't want to just leave it on the table and have strangers fondling it...or worse. I speak from personal experience. A few years back, I let a maker keep a bowie I had purchased on his table at a show so that other collectors might have an up-close look at his work. Unfortunately, someone checking out knives at his table dropped a large folder on it and completely ruined the embellishment from a world-class engraver on the guard. The guilty party just shrugged, mumbled a few words, and disappeared into the crowd.

I will never again leave a knife I have purchased on a maker's table.

 

[Bastid]

At this point I am with Holger on the importance of knife shows.

To me it is a chance to touch base with old friends. Because of those friends, I will most likely have a knife or two to take home, but even if I did not come home with a knife, it would not lessen the experience of touching base with friends maybe making new ones for me to any degree.

When I buy a knife at a show (either taking delivery of an order or finding something that I end up purchasing) I always offer to leave it on the table. Some makers want to do that and others are not comfortable having a sold knife on their table in case something happens to it. I understand both decisions, but think it would be better for the maker to have 'em on the table maybe behind glass if they are not comfortable with it sitting out. I have had 2 knives trashed by a tire kicker years ago when I used to sell. It does hurt.

 

[Joss]

I am not really a fan of the current bidding system used at AKI. I would rather use a random system where visitors each get a turn (done randomly) at buying one knife, then it's the next person's turn, etc. You can do several rounds of this until the most desireable knives are picked and then the rest can be sold in an open show format.

The problem with the AKI format is that some buyers can get picked several times.

 

[Kevin Jones]

I will generally leave my purchased knives on the maker's table, however after these horror stories, might not in the future. :grumpy: