The Go/No-Go Gauge For A Book Or Rifle

Joined
Mar 22, 2002
Messages
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No Go. The book is rejected by DAW. I have no idea if it even made it up the ladder, or if it was unsatisfactory from the bottom of the Organization up.

I had a funny feeling when I arrived at the Post Office today. Sure enough, when I reached into the PO Box, there was a yellow card telling me my package had returned. Those of us scoffing at the extra intuition of mankind, apriori knowledge unaccounted for by Science might appreciate this, though naturally enough will expect the presence of unconscious but recorded cues as the explanation. (the timing was right and there were two yellow cards; I knew beforehand only one package was coming. Deduction)
15 years ago, when I was being published, I used to get rejection slips all the time. That's a very important part of the Industry. It's a machine with rules, and you accept them as the reality of the process. Having said this objectively and dryly, I'll now break form and give you the meat of it.

It hurts like hell. There is no point in not. When I found HI forum Bill Martino gave me a place to write and have friends. You've put up with me for years.
I made the decision to try again while I was here, on these pages of the screen in front of us. This was no small endeavor. This is not off the cuff or not being able to buy the lawnmower I really wanted, the one with 5 horse power instead of 2.5 hp. Why would I bother with that? This forum is real and the friends real. I told Bill I'd try. I said I wanted to be able to look the Angels in the eyes. Everyone has a stone to roll, and this was mine. I'm not going back to who I was beforehand, even if I could. That person was anxious and depressed. He was cynical and wise. He did not have the guts I have today. Thank you all for rooting for me.

Everything was maddenly slow. The baby couldn't pull the letters from the box, and I had to bite my tongue and wait. Finally, when he gave up, I showed him how to curl the envelopes together in a bundle so one could slip them through the small space. It's cold and snowing, and it takes time to load and unload kids with all their equipment. You pick the Kindergartner up at lunchtime and he's hungry the moment he hits the seat. When you get to the kitchen a wailing goes up for Juice, juice, juice, let the juice flow.

Lunch is in the oven and you'd better stick something in their mouths now or face revolution. How much, right here, get a cup, not too much, I don't like my cheese, the video to the TV stopped, who had the wooden truck first, God durned diaper gonna burst....

I taped a wooden box to the flat bed of another truck so they could both haul building blocks around.

I'm going to walk downstairs and turn Mickey off. He's talking to himself down there, in the basement alive playing for an audience that isn't there- like my book.

'Tell me not in mournful numbers Life is but an empty dream,
for the Soul is dead that slumbers, and things are not, what they seem.
Life is real, Life is earnest, and the grave is not its goal
Dust to dust, ashes to ash, was not spoken of the Soul."

I think that's Longfellow; Rusty would know from memory, and Linton probably already has it looked up.

Can you imagine if God left me down here all alone, and the only writing I do is HI forum? I guess that's better than a slap in the face or a slug from a .44

A forumite sent me a knife, and I'm betting that's what's in the other box. I'll leave his name out in case this wonderful gesture on his part he'd prefer quiet. He wanted a knife to be used, and not just sit, so he sent it to me. One of my son's will get it on that day when I'm gone. It's a good 'un. I never had one before- the Sarge knife. The funny thing is, this forumite thinks I'm 'mad', especially after I talked to him for an hour on the phone. Well, documented electronic evidence is hard to ignore, and acceptable in a Court of Law, so he may have me there.

But thanks. Do you see how it goes now? What it is we've been hacking away at forever in the Cantina, what Bill was putting forth? I'll always remember this knife as special, it came on that day, a good thing part of the overall whole, the Great Mystery we face every day and know as real, aggravating, wonderful, boring and sad. It's what we got to work with.



munk
 
munk said:
The funny thing is, this forumite thinks I'm 'mad', especially after I talked to him for an hour on the phone.
munk

because the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centre light pop
and everybody goes "Awww"...

Jack Keroac, On the Road

keep trying Munk!:thumbup:
 
I'm truly sorry to hear about the "slip".
Time to send it out to the next publisher on your list.
Don't give up. And definetly don't give up writing.
 
It's a competitive market. Expect the occasional setback before you have a foot in the door.

They said no. They may say yes next time. Someone else may say yes. Emotional investment aside, you're only out the cost of postage. You brought the work to life. A trip through the mail isn't going to kill it. It's part of this world now, regardless of how large or small the audience is right now.

And I wouldn't put too much stock in what that forumite said. He's not a psychologist, and he may be mad himself. ;)
 
joined a local writing group once

always always always
heard published writers repeat
things like

manuscripts usually get 'un-accepted' (rejected)
for no good reason

reader's have moods
& preferences
& bad days

if the pile is too big
some -don't- get read at all

have something on the outside that attracts attention
maybe envelope color
An interesting sounding return address can help
(here: Broken Arrow, OK - rather than Tulsa)

Often the first reader is an intern or part-timer
who may only read a few sentences
if they don't 'get it'
sometimes -anyone- who has access to the pile of submissions
can be a 'reader' if they choose so.

A manuscrpt's trial by ordeal.

Dozens of new bestseller authors submitted
their bestsellers to -many- publishers before
eventually getting accepted

if you worked too hard on something to get it just right
your favorite part likely
you likely ruined it
& need to cut it out.

An good agent's job is to be a known source
of good manuscrpt's to the publishers--
they have to have a track record to
bypass the mass readers on the bottom tier

despite publishers' instructions to submit
the manuscript to only one publisher at a time . . . . . .

--submit it to lots of publishers at once--

odds are only one of many will accept it

& if more than one?

in the first place
they are just trying to avoid bidding wars on potential good sellers.

Writing is easy; selling it is hard.
All manuscripts get rejected.
Perserver.

So 'they' say.


otoh
A new good knife ......


<:eek:> THEY call me 'Dean' <>
dean-sp-sm.jpg

<:)> fYI-fWiW-iIRC-JMO-M2C-YMMV-TiA-YW-GL-HH-HBd
<:D> Noobee <> Tips <> Baha'i Prayers Links --A--T--H--D
 
If it's SciFi try submitting it to Analog, Science Fiction & Fact, or to the Asimov SciFi monthly rag.
I subscribed to Analog for years and when my eyes got worse I had a hard time reading them so I quit. I had over a years worth that I'm gradually catching up on now that one eye doesn't have its cataract anymore. I missed some wonderful stories for a while and wonder what I'm missing now.:(
 
Bummer, Munk:(
But those pages are just pages. Those words are just words. It doesn't matter what your write, whether you call book or article, it doesn't matter if it is seen by your eyes alone or the eyes of millions. The important thing is that spark you've got. You have the gift of painting pictures in the minds of hundreds of kindred spirits at the same time. You'll find your audience. Hell, you already have a fanbase that'll buy 100 copies of whatever you get published. The story is great, i'm sure. I'm sure a think tank of publisher bigwigs had some bookish type sit down and crunch stats, formulate a curve, and enter it into Computron the market measuring machine. "Sorry, Sir. This one is a no go. Computron says that the public doesn't want to read any Sci Fi books. They want He said/She said books on the Iraq War and anything with Jessica Simpson's cleavage on the front cover."
Such is life. Even if you don't make it as a famed writer, you still have that gift. The gift of communication. Beyond the fame and beyond the cash, that is what is important. You're boys are going to be great men one day because their father knew how to comminicate. They might not listen now, but one day they'll get it.
Keep plugging away. I really want to see your $89 jacket on a magazine cover one day.

Jake
 
Well sorry to hear that Munk. Give it another go. What else can you do? The subjective nature of art makes rejection both common and harder to accept. I think you'll land it somewhere. Keep your head held high and regard yourself that way. We do.
 
Send the @^$! thing out again. Don't make the mistake of re-reading it, just re-wrap it, and get it out the door to the next publisher on your list. Then get back to work on the next one.

You're a Writer. Writers write. Editors frequently pi$$ away on people's lives, but Writers write. As we see here every day, you've got something that needs to be said.

Best wishes.

Tom.
 
note to munk:

change all adjectives to either "bulging, throbbing, or heaving," then resubmit manuscript.
 
Kismet said:
note to munk:

change all adjectives to either "bulging, throbbing, or heaving," then resubmit manuscript.


"Then the air was full of sound. I sat up. Porterfield and Dodge were gone. I pulled on boots and snatched my helmet. You slept fully-dressed with your web belt on, so I had the Smith & Wesson. Outside it was bulging and then just below me a throbbing glare as one of the morters fired. It was followed by another off to the side and then by a third. Somewhere over the ridge there was the rip of heaving-gun fire and the unfamiliar-sounding fire from another weapon. I started down the hill to the mortar emplacements, half sliding on the bulging snow. Porterfield grabbed my arm.

Firing went on for another ten minutes. Except for distant artillery, it was the first throbbing fire I'd ever heard. It was heaving.

Gradually, the firing faded, and Sergeant Dodge climbed out of the bulging emplacment. It was a throbbing night with stars but very heaving. Dodge was sweating. He looked bulging. When I went back inside, I could hear Porterfield on the phone, reporting to Company."

Hmmm. Throbbing! :D

(Hang in there, Bro.)
 
You already ARE a writer, with over 10,000 posts.

You've already been published, all over the internet.

Start on the next one, but write for yourself, because you need to. Because you like to. Because you want to, or you wouldn't have written the first one.

Screw all critics anyways- their product is criticism. Who needs that?



Ad Astra
 
Keep submitting to others. Was it Tolkein or JK Rowling who was told that their story was ridiculous and would not sell, so they were rejected from a number of publishers?

Keep at it, friend. It's not over. And more importantly, keep writing. As others have said, it's about you, not them. They're doing a job. You're fulfilling your calling.

Take care. You have our support.

Chris
 
Can only imagine the depth of your disappointment Munk!
Will offer one thought.. Count your blessings!

Further, can you imagine living a life where you must conform?
Not Me pal.. I celebrate my eccentricity. People who like me
accept me, strange behavior and all. Those who do not? Who cares!

You also have a heart! Thats a biggie!!

Regards Brent.
 
pffft.

Finishing book=victory.

Submitting it=victory.

Getting turned down once=less than 1% of the times Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance got turned down. You'd think Pirsig would've taken the hint after getting turned down about 60 times. Noooo, he kept going.

Each time you submit it is a little victory. Getting turned down is just part of the game. You don't catch a fish every time you throw a line in, do you? OK, bad example. I don't.
 
Kismet said:
note to munk:

change all adjectives to either "bulging, throbbing, or heaving," then resubmit manuscript.

I submitted one of those one time. They sent it back. They couldn't tell if I was trying to write a romance novel or an idoits guide on birthing a whale calf.

Eitherway it was a masterpiece.

Jakespeare
 
The book appears to have been read. By whom, who knows? The rejection letter is a form type, but has some spaces in the sentence structures that make one think it's a mish mash of form letters- phrases chosen and put together. The letter is initialed by the Associate Editor, but for all I know, that is what he does every morning at 10 AM. The letter states that for them to add to their existing line a new writer must have a book that is, 'truly outstanding'. I'm thinking now that means Dune or Harry Potter.

The book for me fulfilled my requirements as a reader. The book was alive, it carrried the reader from beginning to end. It did not insult the reader. It had subtlety. I used to read everything, and I think it is better than much I've read- but that doesn't mean anything. In the end of my reading career, my only requirement was an authentic, bonafide real story, and this 'aliveness'. The genre no longer mattered to me. It could be Art, but that was often a negative.
I'm processing this. I think I need to write a break out work. I don't think this is a break out work. I wrote it to be as good as the stuff I've read. That's a problem.

I recently picked up a book by an author I'd admired. I had no interest in buying the book. In fact, holding it left me confused and a little embarressed. Nothing much had changed. They did what they did very well, but I'd had that 15 and 20 years ago, and I don't want to read more of it.

I don't wish to be lulled to sleep any more. I don't want to wade through a hundred pages to get to the 'good part'. Everyone admires descriptive passages, except me, perhaps. I could add those to my book, but it would not be enough. I'm actually rather good at lyrical descriptive passages. I rather think they are admired because that is something a professor can do, if he cannot otherwise write, True Grit. And it is authors like Max Cato and Charles Portis I admire- because they tell simple stories (that are actually rather sophisticated) the books and characters are alive, and much of the unnecesary is trimmed out.

I'm not trying to be cynical or above anything. I am only speaking the truth as a reader for decades, one who retired.

I never thought I'd write more than I had to say in Science fiction. My book I envisioned as the first in three, and in the second I've been considered a 'bold' departure.

I have no idea what I'll do now. I will write, but what, I do not know at this moment.

edit, I realized as I was in the bathroom taking a dump- which is likely to become the new highlight of my day in the post book life-that I liked my characters and did not wish to leave them. When I wrote the book I was as interested as anyone to see what would happen next- I was experiencing the Story like a reader.
I'll miss my characters if I let them die. That's as much as I can say about any book I like.


munk
 
Munk,

I'm happy for you. You are doing what you want, strive, reach for your goals. You make fall, you may not reach the goal, but you are trying and fighting battles is life. So what if this one didn't happen, or the one before it, or the one before that. So what if the next doesn't or the following doesn't. Look how many times Sam Walton failed before he got walmart. Robert Jordan didn't start with his Wheel of Time series. Find another editor, self print, my book from amazon outta be here today. Life your life, and don't let others define your actions as successes or failures.


munk said:
I have no idea what I'll do now. I will write, but what, I do not know at this moment. munk

Ahhh freedom.

munk said:
I realized as I was in the bathroom taking a dump-
munk

Thats where I do the majority of my thinking too...
 
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