The Great Unknowns

J

JerryO

Joined
Oct 12, 1998
Messages
261
This topic was on another forum (e-mail list actually) but it seems like a good question to ask here as well.

Who are the great unknown knifemakers? To make it more interesting try to keep the cost down. By that I mean, what knifemakers are producing reasonably priced stuff. I know that's hard to describe, but for the sake of arguement lets go with $250.00 (US)

I put forward Fred Perrin & RJ Martin both of whom have blades in this category. I'm supposed to get one of Trace Rinaldi's LUK's and I've heard much good about him so I'll add him as well. Any others?

JerryO

p.s. come on Les who's out there right now that we can buy for under $250 and he'll be worth mucho later. (I know that doesn't follow the original question, but I figured you could give us the poop)
 
Ok Jerry, here we go. All the makers that have been mentioned on this thread qualify for your original question.

There is no such thing as a great unknown. If they are great, dealers such as myself know about them, long before the public at large does. Why? Because guys like me live, eat, breath, sleep and think about custom knives. While most of you have "real" jobs.

There seems to be this notion, that there are great makers out there who knives will be worth 10 times what you paid for them in a few years. There are no such makers. Now if your going to talk 20-30% that is a different story.

A name that should be mentioned but was not, Al Polkowski. There is a huge demand, but little product. Consequently, you can make 20% quickly.

Makers such as Dozier, Nealy, Martin and Fowler make knives at such a rapid pace, they can keep up with the demand. Knives from these individuals will probably not rise much above what they sell for today. Of course there are exceptions. First, if the knife is limited, Bud Nealy is making the LDC F1 for us, it is limited to 50 knives. Rarity causes prices to go up. Randy Martin, personally, I feel his knives are better made and will preform as well if not better than Phil Hartsfield's knives. If you ever have the chance look at the two side by side. Those of you who have done this know what I am talking about. Randy's knives are as good and are half price.

The laws of knife collecting!

1) The maker has to be percieved to be one of the best, wether they are or not is inconsequential. Unfortunately, there are several makers out there that just cannot live up to the hype.

2) The maker has to be percieved to provide value for the dollar. No one wants to pay $400 for a $200 knife. However, people love to pay $200 for a $400 knife.

3) The maker must attend shows. If people cant put their hands on the makers work, they cant make up their mind if Rule #1 is in effect.

4) The maker must advertise. The maker has to get the word out about their knives.

5) The maker must have a catalog (especially if they are a Guild Member...youd be amazed at the makers who violate that Guild Rule!).
They should have photos of thier standard knives and some current work. Now I know from experience that catalogs are very expensive. So expect to pay $5.00 for a good one. If you cant pay $5.00, you cant afford the knives this maker offers. Most, will refund the $5.00 upon making a purchase.

6) They need new designs every year. If all the maker produces is the same old knives, new collectors will not pick up on your favorite maker.

7) They need to make it your way! If this is a truly custom knife (HINT HINT), the maker will have no problem incorporating your ideas(unless of course they are just not possible with the equipment they have or they dont posses the skill, i.e. engraving or scrimshaw).

8)The maker needs to have a following in the aftermarket. Want to know who is hot, visit the dealers tables at a show. Makers have a great deal of knowledge on their knives and possibly others. However, they generally do not have a command of the custom knife market that a dealer has. A maker sells his/her knives, I sell over 200 different makers knives. This aftermarket demand is important because this market will determine wether or not there is demand for the knife you are thinking about purchasing.

9) Dont buy from Makers with attitudes. If they are too lazy to stand up and greet you, brush off your questions, look bored while talking to you (Hell if they cant get excited about your knives why should you) and are just basically viewing you as a wallet with legs. Leave this maker alone, if you dont have a good feel about him, most of your fellow collectors wont either.

10) This is the most important rule.. BUY WHAT YOU LIKE! You may have it for awhile. Always try to buy the best knife you can afford. Learn as much as you can about knives, ask lots of questions (without being a pain in the ass). Also, understand that most of the knife magazines are (because of their publishing deadlines) 6 months behind what is really going on in custom knives. Lastly, learn the difference between a trend and a fad!

For most knife makers it takes 10 years of hard work to become a "overnight sensation".
Treat them with the respect they deserve and in turn they will respect you and your wishes.

Hope this helps.

Les
 
Tom,

You sound like you know who some of the great unknowns are; who are they? Dont be shy give them some of the press they deserve. Posting their names here may help them sell a knife.

By the way who are the other knifemakers you speak of. You know the ones who have gotten alot of press lately but couldnt make a pimple on a these knifemakers ass's.

Nothing worse than a posts with no names!

Les
 
My vote is for Jeff Chaffee's straight knives. Jeff struggled for years making some real nice well built straight knives. He builds folders now and his name has gotton around . I remember going to a show in Cinci
and buying one . It was a well built dagger.
$60.00. Its still better built and designed better than 80 percent of the knives I see on the market today .
AS for Tom's comments on press.. well Tom for knifemakers press is a good thing. Some of us make a living at knifemaking. Progress has a way of folding the old ideas into the new. If you dont keep up with it ... it will swallow you as a knifemaker.
The things like materials advancement, design, and construction have overcome many makers because they refuse to change with the times and come up with fresh ideas.
If the press does articles on makers most often there is a reason. We as knifemakers are responsable for bringing the level of knife making up as often as possible. IT keeps the intrest for the collector and maker alike. Without the press and new inovations the knife industry would suffer.
Understand im not downing the old I just feel that some of us try to keep the spirit of knifemaking moving . Sitting on your laurals
and bitching that you never get press (as a knifemaker) is the knifemaker's fault.
Its a part of the business that has to be addressed.


[This message has been edited by Darrel Ralph (edited 10-24-98).]
 
Tom, how about you tell us some of your choices of great knifemakers who aren't getting the attention they should?

Let's try to get these people some recognition for their work.

That is the topic of this thread after all...

Spark
 
Tom,

Your the one that brought up the half-ass knifemakers. I dont know the 10 worse knifemakers. Im sure that would vary with the style of the knife and the price that is charged. I do think that 95% of the makers out there do the best they can with what they have. I think if you ask around youll find that I am very opinionated. So I dont pull punches.

Tom, I dont know who you are, just by your name TomW. The reason I talk about the makers I do business with, is because I feel that these are the makers of the future and they do the best work for the money. However, if you have a maker that you think is doing great work, then talk about him or her on this forum. Id like to know if there is someone Im overlooking as well. Additionally, I talk about these individuals as they will be able to transefer out of the tactical market as it winds down.

Personally, I have seen no drop in this market. However, I will tell you that more makers are going to Damascus Liner Locks and Custom Double Actions Auto's. Tactical fixec blades are also making a come back.

Tom, the custom knife market runs in cycles. When I became a dealer 12 years ago, all I sold were tactical knives. Then I progressed to where 3 years ago I sold primarly Multi-Thousand dollar damascus Fighters, Sub-Hilt Fightes and Bowies.

So, to sum up. I agree with you that there are some makers who are living off their rep. Howver, it is their customers that need to inform them of this, not you or I (your right the challange was a trap). Next, I have never made a knife, but I have all the respect in the world for anyone who can make even a decent one. As I cannot. Third, want to hear about other knifemakers, give me specific names. There are 4,000 custom knifemakers out there, lets hear about them.
Finally, Pre-Cut artists interesting term. However, most of this pre-cutting does not help the knife maker in completing the knife. Only in eliminating the mundane chore of standing at a Band Saw. Tom if you ever get the chance get these pre-cut parts and make a knife, then we will compare it to others out there that you think do poor work. You might be surprised at just how good their work is.
 
I could not agree with Darrel more as far as far as fault for lack of exposure either by word of mouth or press. Les' laws of knife collecting offer information that should seriously be considered when purchasing a custom knife, and #10 leaves a lot of room for the enjoyment of a hobby at many levels.

I still have a tremendous respect for Knife World. It is not as flashy as the mags (which play an important role even though there is obvious bias), but they have a tendency to be pretty frank in comparison to the mags. There is a lot of talent (and a lot of fine people too) that apply their craft very well, but in some cases I have met good people with great knives that do not constantly challenge themselves or pay much attention to the way they are perceived. I have met a few with gruff exteriors that make it a little harder to approach them at a show. In many cases those exteriors are just that, but many folks do not want to make an effort to approach a maker frozen to the chair with a scowl on their face.

On the other side of the topic, two of my favorite lesser-known makers are Sava Damlovac and Randy Gilbreth, but neither are buried in obscurity.
 
I had a table by Ed at the ny show last year. Great fellow . Looks like he going to make it . Hes got spunk.....
 
Some great post's here! If you like Ed Chavar and Bud Nealy then here's another name to toss into the ring. Kurt Meerdink. Nice guy, great knives also constantly getting better.

JerryO
 
You are correct Sir! Kurt used to work for Bud Nealy then he left and then Ed worked for Bud as well.
 
Hi Tom,

You make a couple of valid points. I have a pretty good idea who you are talking about (acutally it could be as many as four makers).

The main point is that this (these) makers will never be considered great makers.

Most full time makers can make between 200 - 400 per year. If the makers table has more knives on it than a custom knife dealer, this should be a hint. Either he is not working by himself or he is not selling knives and just keeps bringing them to show after show.

Either way, this is probably not a knife for a collection.

However, these makers do serve a purpose. They provide good quality knives at a fair price (for what you get). These knives allow new collectors to purchase a nice looking, good quality custom knife. This brings more customers into the custom knife market. Hopefully, these new collectors will stay and start buying knives from other makers. Thus expanding the custom knife market.

There is going to be a big change over the next 5 years in custom knives. A changing of the guard is coming. Also, with new makers doing better and better work. The "established" makers will be forced to do better work in order to compete. So dont worry Tom, as with most markets, the custom knife market weeds those out that dont meet the standard.

Of course you have shown us all how to voice approval or disapproval in the best way. If you like the work buy it, if you dont, dont buy it.

Les
 
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