The HI Everest KATANA - new sword on the block

Jim March

Jim March

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Oct 7, 1998
Messages
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Pics on the link below are of an early prototype - some modifications have already been made, others are being suggested. The "pommel-tsuba" is already gone, and the real tsuba is now much thicker.

This has serious potential as the baaadest "true battle ready" Katana in the sub-$500 price range.
http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum26/HTML/001262.html

Paul Chen, eat yer heart out
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Very nice. I am keenly interested as I am picking up my first sword tonight. It is a Katana in A2 steel with a G10 handle that is then cord wrapped made by my neighbor Rob Criswell. It is not as traditional as some, but I expect it to be a great user and I am thrilled. Seems like it would be a strong contender in the under $500.00 arena also, I will post a picture tonight when I get it home.
David

[This message has been edited by Snoopy (edited 02-26-2000).]
 
David,

Please don't forget to post that pic tonight. Also, does the maker have his own website with pics of his swords. What you described fits the bill of what I am looking for. Thanks.

------------------

Louis Buccellato
http://www.themartialway.com
Knives, Weapons and equipment. Best prices anywhere.
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"only the paranoid will survive":)


 
No problem, I am excited as all get out and will be sure to get a picture or two up. Rob used to have some info on the web, but the page was hosted by someone other than him and does not appear to be available now. I am going to ask him tonight if he minds me giving out his phone number as I think the pics could generate some interest. Sounds like he has been able to stay fairly busy by word of mouth and gun show sales.
David
 
Criswell is a fine smith...however, the balance, overall heft and blade shape on some Criswells in 5160 that I've handled are nothing like a Japanese piece. They're heavier, no doubt much tougher, and would be a decent choice for stuff like SCA Bottle Chop competition.

But if you're a student of a traditional Japanese art such as Iado or a Koryu, a Criswell won't handle like an original.

The HI Kat will. True, the grip details will be slightly off but the heft should be dead-on; they had a genuine Edo-period original to copy and based on the pics, they really did. We won't know till we handle the first protos.

The other thing is, HI's Khukuris already had an edge geometry and profile like a Katana, that's why I first figured they could properly clone that old Edo blade I had laying around.

Pick up a Criswell and then handle a Paul Chen (or Bugei, or a Howard Clark) and even without swinging it, the difference in heft and balance will be unmistakable. The Criswell is tougher, but if you know what you're doing with an original-heft piece you'll run circles around a Criswell, utterly outmaneuvering it.

Now, Rob may have handled some Nihontos lately and did up something that handles right. But if so, he'll be right on the ragged edge of what the metallurgy can do and that means the heat-treat gets *crucial*. The old Japanese battle swords were no different, to keep 'em light and fast they used *barely* enough metal to work, and some broke - you need to know how to handle 'em right even if you were rich enough to own a real masterpiece. The big Criswells I've seen will be real tolerant of outright abuse but you wouldn't last two seconds in a fight with a guy who knew what he was doing with a light piece...you *literally* wouldn't keep your head two seconds. I've seen demos by guys who know what they're doing, it's scary s^%t.

The guy that REALLY knows what he's doing is Howard Clark...his stuff starts at $1,000 and goes radically up from there. If you want totally traditional looks, I think he's the best deal.

The HI Katana will offer traditional *handling* in a good steel and heat-treat. It won't look totally traditional. For the $400 price range, who cares. A Paul Chen at that price will look more traditional, but the HI will be worlds tougher, with a damn near indestructable handle and a better blade. Little or no hamon, but...who cares.

You want show, get a Chen. You want go, at the same price, the HI should kick a $400 Chen's butt and send it screaming home to mama.

Jim
 
Thanks Jim, that is a lot of info. I know Rob has made some changes along with using A2, but I suspect the weight and balance issues may still be the same. I know he is now putting more of a bend into the blade rather than having a straight spine. I can hardly wait to get my hands on it, I would guess others will follow soon and the HI might be a fine compliment to it. I plan on chopping things (everything the urge calls for
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) with it so the Criswell may be just the ticket for my needs - with some training and appreciation I could move to a more balanced sword. Thanks again for your help, I am a sword newbie, but eager to learn.
David
 
Even the straight Criswells I handled certainly have a valid role...indestructable beginner's practice pieces, for one.

Nothing wrong with that. But at some point, you'll want to graduate.

Jim
 
COOL. I'm also a beginner so perfect balance wouldn't bother me either--but I can't afford either sword right now even at $400, so I might as well wait till the HI comes out before doing anything rash.
 
OK, here's why the HI Katana and the other "traditional blade shapes" work so well:
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First thing, the total blade heft needed to support the relatively fragile hollow-ground edge of a Criswell will be higher. As long as he uses that hollow-grind, he'll have to back it with extra "beef". He'll get excellent shallow "slicing" performance with that grind, but for real deep cutting, the original shape is a lot like a modern rifle bullet. For similar reasons.

On an original, the spine has that peak because blocks are performed with the spine and with the blade held at about a 45degree angle or a bit less. And the spine is hardened, although not as much as the edge. The core is softer. So while an original may have less actual metal in it's cross-section, the part that you bring to bear against the other guy's edge is of maximum strength.

The first thing Pala (Bill's Nepalese father-in-law and owner of HI) noticed when he saw the original blade was that the spine was hard too. Took him by surprise. I'm not sure they'll be able to duplicate that particular feature in Nepal; if not, the fact that it's 5160 steel should give it decent impact resistance to an enemy's blade edge even if it's unhardened. We won't know about that part until we get one back from Nepal (which will be pretty soon, Bill seemed to think 4/1/00).

Note: so far as I'm aware, the spine on a $400 range Paul Chen isn't hardened either, and that's railroad-track (1086 or similar) steel.

You can see the Criswell's grind the best here: http://home.earthlink.net/~djoyal/rob4.jpg

For comparison, here's an American smith known for excellent handmade traditional-style blades: Howard Clark http://www.mvforge.com/ - his best deal IMHO is in tool steel at $35/inch but you don't get a pretty hamon. The HI will be somewhat similar in concept - tough above looks.

Browse Howard's site even if you can't afford his level...lots of good info.

Jim

[This message has been edited by Jim March (edited 02-26-2000).]
 
More information:
http://swordforum.com/fall99/lineup-1.html

This article compares the lower-end Paul Chen pieces with the other low-end contender: the Kris Cutlery Katanas.

Kris's website is here: http://www.invis.com/kriscutlery/jswords.html

Kris is a "Filipino version of HI" in some ways. The Kris Katanas aren't bad, they're sort of mid-way in shape and heft between a traditional/Chen/HI type and the Criswells.

The weaknesses of the Kris are the shorter grips, no options for longer that I'm aware of and only a semi-traditional blade shape.

That said, they're worth every penny Kris is asking for, unlike (in my opinion) the lowest-end Paul Chen. Don't take my word for it; in the middle of that article is a pic of a "Practical Katana" with a grip that's come totally apart.

I think the HI will look better, have a better hand-done heat-treat by experts and it's grip mechanics will be mostly Khukuri-derived. It may not look totally traditional, but that grip was designed for heavy chopping and should be stronger than the blade.

I believe there's room for three or more price levels: the Kris owns the sub-$200 level, you'll get honest basic functionality. Jump to $400 and the HI will offer some customization of grip length, better looks, better toughness than a Kris. Get into $1,000 to $1,500 and the Bugeis with high-end Chen blades or a Howard Clark will be strong and look totally, 100% traditional.

The Criswell is kind of a "divergent path" in that the heft and handling is radically different. Graduate from a Kris to the HI and the heft is in the same ballpark; ditto going from HI to a Clark.

Now, this is just one guy's opinion. I've been shopping/handling different pieces for a while now but I'm NOT an expert.

Jim
 
Other excellent smiths for Japanese style blades are: Michael Bell, Francis Boyd, Howard Clark, Randal Graham. Their blades feel Japanese. My friend Michael makes excellent blades. I have a Katana made by Michael, and Yoshindo Yoshihara from Japan looked it over. Yoshindo was very surprised that Michael made everything on my Katana. Also he was surprised that an Amaerican can make a Katana that feels Japanese.
As far as Kris cutlery is concerned, Cecil will have a Premium grade Katana out this year. This will be traditionally mounted and will have a cross section like a traditional Nihonto. The polish will also be awesome. I have seen the blades already and they are also worth considering. I'll keep everyone posted. So many toys to buy?!?
 
Thanks, Jim. I've seen a few KC pieces but I never thought much of them. Maybe I'll look harder for one to handle now. I don't actually train with a sword, I bought a couple of bokken awhile back and in playing with them decided that they're much more dangerous than a baseball bat, so now they're my bedside armament.
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But lately I've been thinking about trying to train for real once I graduate. The bokken seem like devastating enough weapons in my untrained hands.

Besides, following the links around till I found that Graham Scottish basket-hilt sword was worth it. One more weapon I now need.
 
A few comments on the Kris Cutlery range of Japanese-style swords;

I own one of each, except for the so-called 'Ninja-to'.

Kris offer two katanas, one longer than the other. The styling of the 'short' katana is not 100% traditional; the blade curves more than a nihonto blade, the profile of the kissaki is fuller; the section from the middle of the blade to the edge is cannel-ground to an authentic profile, but the area from the middle to the back appears to be slightly hollow ground. There is no hamon.

I bought this sword as a knockabout, for iaido and general cutting practice. It takes and holds a superb edge, cuts very well indeed and has (so far) proved indestructible (I've even cut 16ga steel sheet, using an oblique cut, without notching the blade) I'd compare it in handling and toughness to a better-than-average gunto. Aesthetically, it's a cow, with belt-grinder marks visible, an ugly brass disc tsuba and a cord-wrapped handle.

All the above goes equally for the 'long' katana blade, except that it's considerably more authentic looking, with a traditionally-contoured blade (except that it tapers at the point) I bought the blade only, and made my own tsuba and grips, so I can't comment on the quality of the factory fittings. I would describe the blade as exceptional value for money

The KC wakizashi is, unfortunately, garbage. the hilt furniture was shoddy and fell to bits after a few light cuts against straw targets. The cutting edge proved to be absurdly brittle and left big flakes of steel embedded in the softwood gatepost I tried it on. At this point I reground, annealed, rehardened and retempered the balde and made new fittings; the result is a viable practice wakizashi, but it's no longer a Kris Cutlery product (and it'd have been quicker to make one from scratch from a truck spring...)

Greatly as I admire HI products (and the quality of the HI pieces I own is exceptional) I would be inclined to doubt whether they'll be able to make a significantly better katana than KC, let alone one that represents such value for money.

Personally, I'd prefer not to see HI and KC, my two favorite cutlers, competing directly for the katana market. I feel that HI should continue to develope its world-beating range of khukuris, and maybe expand into the sword market by offering items that complement, rarher than compete with, the KC range; eg traditional Nepalese and Indian styles such as the tulwar, the katar; maybe even one day the 'ultimate sword', the Persian yataghan. Further or in the alternative, I'm sure that HI could profitably turn its attention to producing more high-range khukuris in the spirit of their exquisite new kothimoda.
 
Tom, I'd agree except for one thing:

I believe that the *original* Japanese-type grip construction was marginal. It worked because of careful hand-fitting and good quality wood.

Makers such as Clark, Graham and others can duplicate the performance of an original, but only with equivelent hand-fitting of the grip structure.

There's numerous reports of Chens suffering total grip failure.

I'm concerned that no original-type grip assembled under factory conditions is going to be truly reliable. Cecil can take his best shot, but it's tricky.

HI isn't even trying a traditional grip. They're using something mechanically derived from a Khukuri although the parentage won't be obvious (thank god). They're using a long tapered stick tang hard-anchored to the pommel, the same thing a hard-pounding monstrosity like the 20" Ang Khola uses.

It's not going to come apart. There's no wooden pin to rot/snap and send the blade flying across a Dojo - which has happened.

Anyways...that's why I think HI is well-situated to do a modest-budget Katana. I don't think it'll directly compete with the new KC high-end product; if somebody wants original looks, that new KC sounds great. But the HI should be Gorilla-strong at the grip and it's possible the kamis can do something really spectacular on the heat-treat.

In particular, I'm talking to Bill about hardening the spine peak to a point a bit above mid-way between the edge and core, for strength in blocking an incoming edge.

So far as I'm aware, nothing else in the sub-$1,000 range has a hardened spine.

Jim
 
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