The hold,grip,cut technique thread

[clich]

So much like all of you, I've watched video how tos and seen pics and read threads and websites about bushcrafting, everything from making a spoon to a long term natural shelter. The problem is I was never taught in person by a wise old mountain man how to hold a knife properly for certain chores, I have youtube and equip2endure. Now I get by, don't get me wrong, and have figured a few out on my own, but im sure that there are techniques and tricks that make life easier in the bush. I think that we need an educational thread about cutting techniques and ways to hold/grip/cut. For example, everytime moose posts up a pics, he's got his bk2 with the edge facing toward his hand what looks to be like a powerful way to cut, I don't ever cut like that. I've also seen some stuff like kneeling with your knife supported by your raised knee and pulling your stick back on the blade. Also why is jimping on the spine said to produce a weak cut? I thought it added control?

I just want some education that I didn't get growing up and think it would benefit the community, think of it as the mentor some of us never had. Post up some pics of your grips and techniques. Thanks guys

 

[Guyon]

Moose posted an educational spot on this very topic. I'll see if I can dig it up.

Found it. Here ya' go: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/820695-BK2-and-Some-Dirt-Time-((PIC-HEAVY))

 

[clich]

I figured someone did it at some point


Sweet thanks

 

[DerekH]

Yeah, that thread Guyon speaks of is a really good thread for learning, but the best way is to come to the gathering and get some first hand learnin from Moose and Uncle Weirdbeard in person. I learned more in two days with those two than I learned in a week of reading stuff online. Heck, Guyon here knows his way around a knife or two as well, and from what I hear Bladite is pretty well versed in them, especially the kukri like ones and such. Basically you just need to come to the gathering. That would be the best choice. So do that.

 

[clich]

I wish I could make it to a gathering I really do.

 

[DerekH]

Don't wish, just do it. Heck, catch a ride with us. No idea where you live, so it might actually be quicker to drive straight there, but if it isn't, head on this way and you can sleep in the back while I drive. Maybe. Might cost you some cuddling.

 

[Moosez45]

Clich, good thread, and good on you for wanting to learn.

Most of my experience with knvies comes from a lifetime of use, and mistakes. Got the scars to prove them. What I focus on is safety. To me, nothing is more important when you are using knives. Mechanical injury is counter productive, and creates another hurdle to jump, or obstacle to deal with, so, what I teach in all my Knife Basics classes, one phrase, that has saved countless stitches.

"What will happen if (insert possible scenario)" Basically, think before you cut.

I'm always available for info, and I will do my best to help. Making pictorial tuts is challenging sometimes, as time is not my friend, and there is never enough of it, but I can make time, if you need me to.

The cut you are asking about, is the Chest Lever Cut, also know as the "back cut" or "Lat (latissimus dorsi) Cut". Its powerful, easy to control, and about as safe any knife cut can be. Its my favorite cut, and you can tell.

Moose

 

[Moosez45]

Also why is jimping on the spine said to produce a weak cut? I thought it added control?

Sorry, I meant to answer this too.

OK, Clich, when you are holding knife in a full grip, which means your thumb is wrapped around the handle and is touching your first finger (I call this the monkey fist grip ), the knife is supported on all sides, if the handle slips in your grasp, it will just rotate, but you have control of the knife, and it doesn't slip out of your hand. Plus, you are using 100% of the muscles in your hand for control and power.

Now, put your thumb on top, at the jimping, and look at the knife in your hand. You will see an opening, a place where you hand does not cover the handle. This is an escape hatch. If that knife slips, or rolls in your hand, it has an area to escape your grasp and fall free. Falling knives are not good. They can tumble into a thigh, calve, foot, and what does almost everyone do when something is dropped, that they don't want to see hit the ground below? Grab for it. That's how big stitches and tendon damage is created. I've seen it many times, even the pro's and experts do it. Its a habit.

So, basically, you have the difference between the closed grip (Monkey's Fist), and an open grip (Spine Assist). One is secure, strong and stable. The other, allows the possibility of a slip, weakens your hold on the knife, and has an opening where the knife can escape.

Where the spine assist comes from, is for carving, where not much pressure is needed, and fine work can be done. Ask John G, he'll tell you.

AND it works like this, you have to use what works for you.

Finally, be safe and always think, "What would happen if........"

Moose

 

[clich]

Good stuff moose, thanks alot. So when is a good time to use spine assist, like a thumb ramp on a camillus bk10 crewman for example is there a time when a spine assist is a better call than a full on monkey fist? seem they both produce the same cutting angle, but you get more downward force from full grip, why have thumb ramps at all?

 

[Moosez45]

Good stuff moose, thanks alot. So when is a good time to use spine assist, like a thumb ramp on a camillus bk10 crewman for example is there a time when a spine assist is a better call than a full on monkey fist? seem they both produce the same cutting angle, but you get more downward force from full grip, why have thumb ramps at all?

When to use the spine assist? Not sure, I don't use it. Its just one of those things ingrained in my head.

Why the thumb ramp? Because in order to be up for a goverment contract, it has to have something to keep the hand from slipping up on the blade. Like the Kabar 1217 double quillion and so on. That's what I been told

And lots of folks use a grip that utilizes it. I don't, that's why most of my thumbramps are rusted metal dust on the shop floor.

Moose

 

[Bladite]

if you want to practice some control, have someone draw some long S lines, varying a little bit on some cardboard scrap, then take your favorite little knife like a BK14, and learn to follow those lines in different ways...

in particular, i have in mind a skinning type hold, where you're firmly yet lightly holding the knife with index finger along spine, and the rest curled in your hand, and you gracefully trace the lines... on a good backing of course (like a cutting table), and without pressure at first.

later, add pressure.

later, add depth control. let's pretend you are opening a box, and you ONLY want to cut the seams and tape, but not the contents man. how many times i've seen someone plunge cut into a box, only to ruin the contents... "they shoulda wrapped it better". right :>

now you're probably on your way to being a surgeon :>

mmm.

i'll ponder more ponderings :>

 

[parbajtor]

Good stuff moose, thanks alot. So when is a good time to use spine assist, like a thumb ramp on a camillus bk10 crewman for example is there a time when a spine assist is a better call than a full on monkey fist? seem they both produce the same cutting angle, but you get more downward force from full grip, why have thumb ramps at all?

The spine assist helps with correct location of the edge when precision in the cut is needed. I also find that the monkey fist doesn't give you as much control over the depth of cut when shaving thin slivers. The monkey fist is great for power cuts, but tends to grab too much of a bite when finishing/tidying up whittling.

 

[whereismyclock]

Know anything help with stroping? I'm relatively new and know the basics, 20 degrees etc., but I can't find anything long term. Like how often to apply compound, if a compound is best for 1095 as opposed to stainless, who makes the best straps and compounds. Some of these guys say they sharpen even their choppers once a year!
That was the most comprehensive instruction on knife grips I've seen. Just wondering if you got something in that moose hat of yours for sharpening and blade upkeep.

 

[Moosez45]

Know anything help with stroping? I'm relatively new and know the basics, 20 degrees etc., but I can't find anything long term. Like how often to apply compound, if a compound is best for 1095 as opposed to stainless, who makes the best straps and compounds. Some of these guys say they sharpen even their choppers once a year!
That was the most comprehensive instruction on knife grips I've seen. Just wondering if you got something in that moose hat of yours for sharpening and blade upkeep.

Um, hell yeah.

I sharpen all my knives on a 50 degree inclusive (25 degrees on each side), and that is MY personal preference. Use what you like, just remember, the lower the degree the thinner the edge, and more likely to roll or chip during heavy use.

Strops are cool as hell, and the real secret to get that hair popping edge. I use a canvas strop, 2" wide, and 24" in length. Its a "hook" strop, which means it has a D loop on one end, and a handle on the other. One side has chromium oxide (green compound) the other gets treated with crystolon powder. You can get both of these at hobby shops, or online.

Treat the strop by dousing with powder (charging the strop), you want even coverage, and enough to cover the entire area. With the crystolon, you don't want to put so much on it, that it "stacks" or begins to fall off, its kinda like putting chalk on a sidewalk, if you put too much on it, it will just blow off.

If you are using a hook strop, pull it as tight as you can without ripping the hook out. Don't strain yourself, you want enough tension, for the strop to be flat when you apply the knife. With leather/board combo, disregard, its already done for you.

Now, you are going to want to "stroke off the edge" (no silly comments guys, its what its called), which means, move the knife spine first. If you go the other way, you're gonna cut your strop and run it. You will hear when the edge makes contact, its hard to explain, but it makes more of a scrape sound, than swoosh sound. 5-10 times per side, and you're done.

Stropping compounds polish the edge, and remove the burr that is raised when you properly sharpen you knife. Once its done, test on hair, paper, and that yappin' ass purse dog the neighbors have.

Good enough, or do you need more info?

I been meaning to do a review on the KME I've got, might as well turn it into a sharpening tut as well.

Moose

 

[DerekH]

Know anything help with stroping? I'm relatively new and know the basics, 20 degrees etc., but I can't find anything long term. Like how often to apply compound, if a compound is best for 1095 as opposed to stainless, who makes the best straps and compounds. Some of these guys say they sharpen even their choppers once a year!
That was the most comprehensive instruction on knife grips I've seen. Just wondering if you got something in that moose hat of yours for sharpening and blade upkeep.

Using the term "sharpening" on the search, and selecting thread title only as for where to search, and limiting it to the Becker Knife & Tool subforum only, one will find several results. Here are a few.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/828509-What-do-use-to-sharpen-your-Beckers?highlight=sharpen

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/823797-How-do-YOU-sharpen-your-Beckers?highlight=sharpen

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/808648-What-do-you-use-to-sharpen-your-Beckers-DMT-Sharpmaker-etc....?highlight=sharpen

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/868939-Sharpening-yer-knife?highlight=sharpening

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/850817-Lansky-Sharpening-System-for-Beckers?highlight=sharpening

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/848656-Sharpening-Questions.?highlight=sharpening

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/843577-Sharpening?highlight=sharpening

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/806274-Sharpening-Becker-s-or-otherwise?highlight=sharpening

(Preemptive explanation: Not being a d-bag, just explaining how I found several results as that topic is covered in here pretty regularly and as with anything can get lost in the shuffle if you just go back page by page.)

I use a leather belt on a piece of wood type of strop that I made out of a belt and some of the heavy duty paint stirrer sticks from Lowes. I haven't applied any compound to them since I got them initially coated, and they have worked pretty good so far (say 2-3 months or so). I think that one of them will be scraped at some point though, it looks more black then the reddish color of the compound I used, and it sees the most work on it.

 

[whereismyclock]

(Preemptive explanation: Not being a d-bag, just explaining how I found several results as that topic is covered in here pretty regularly and as with anything can get lost in the shuffle if you just go back page by page.

No offense taken. Just something that crossed my mind while reading. Moment of weakness.

 

[Manitoba]

Just make sure if you are using a lanyard for security when chopping its not wrapped around your wrist. If it pops out of your hand when chopping the blade can rebound and cut you bad anywhere on the body like the face or arm. When using a lanyard for a support grip while chopping, make sure it is desgined to be wrapped around your thumb only when gripping the knfe for chopping. I wish I had a pcik to show you but I dont. For all I know, what I just wrote doesn't make sense, I think it has to be demonstrated to explain what is being said.

 

[JV3]

moose's thread linked above is pure sweetness. clich, if you're up for reading a book mors kochanski's "bushcraft" also covers knife and axe handling similar to moose's post with the bk-2...every outdoorsman should have a copy of that book. it's a classic.

 

[Murphnuge]

I'll be picking up a copy soon, and maybe a copy of the spyderco too. Clich thanks for this thread and Guyon for the link to Moosez thread. I've kinda always just went by instinct with safety in mind. Y'all have included the mechanics and effectiveness into my handling now as well.

 

[dresnor]

Just make sure if you are using a lanyard for security when chopping its not wrapped around your wrist. If it pops out of your hand when chopping the blade can rebound and cut you bad anywhere on the body like the face or arm. When using a lanyard for a support grip while chopping, make sure it is desgined to be wrapped around your thumb only when gripping the knfe for chopping. I wish I had a pcik to show you but I dont. For all I know, what I just wrote doesn't make sense, I think it has to be demonstrated to explain what is being said.

I hope this helps even with these crappy pictures.

Hold your hand like you are going to recieve a handshake.
Loop the lanyard around your thumb so that the blade faces AWAY from you.
The idea is if the knife falls out of your hand it will return to this starting position with the blade AWAY from you.

Next wrap the lanyard around the backside of your hand and the handle into your palm. The lanyard should be tight but comfortable. I use a cordlock to adjust for if I am wearing gloves or not.

It should look like this.

Any questions ask away!

Jeremy