The ICCE Show, an Instant Success? a Work in Progress?

Kevin Jones

Kevin Jones

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Oct 28, 2006
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Ben Seward said:
Just to give my honest perspective, the show lacked the energy of BLADE or the Little Rock show. There were some buyers there but not what I'm used to seeing. I'd guess that at its best the number of attendees in the room was pretty close to the number of table holders. From what I gathered from other makers it was probably a slow show for most. I brought two for delivery and two to sell. I sold one and took a good number of orders so I'm pretty happy with how the show went for me. I like the concept of the show, bringing the two different genres of knife making together. I believe it has potential to be a fine show if makers and collectors support it. I'll most likely give it another go next year and hopefully more people will put it on their calendar. The location seemed decent enough though I heard that there was another venue in KC close by that would have had free parking on the weekend. Show promotion could definitely see improvement as well. I hope the show continues and prospers. Look forward to hearing other's perspective.
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Thank you Ben. Not trying to pick on you here but since I know you as being a very positive and non-cynical individual, I put a lot of stock in your above opinions. Your perspective also reflects what I've heard from others in attendance whose opinions I respect.

First, I wish I would have been able to attend. I attended 5-6 knife shows annually for many years, but my schedule for the last several years just simply doesn't allow attending shows. I've even had to miss the Fisk Show for several years now, and 2015 was the only recent Blade Show I’ve been able to attend with the exception of just flying in and out on Thursday for the CKCA Festivities.

I would like to make a few points in regard to your report in hopes of generating positive and constructive discussion: (I thought it best to create a different thread for this discussion rather than take Ken’s “Show Update” off topic)

I understand there were approx. 160 knifemaker table holders at the show, which is quite a few for a strictly "custom knife show", especially considering it's a new show in a new venue.
How many "Knife Buyers" (not just attendees/tire kickers, but collectors willing and able to buy custom knives) does such a show have to generate to make it a "financial success" for these 160 knifemakers? Let's assume the average number of knives brought to the show per maker is 4 for a total of 640 knives on maker's tables. That’s A LOT of custom knives to sell even at an older established show. I wonder what the total quantity of collectors/buyers was and total knives available at the last Arkansas show?

I do believe a knifemaker can have an overall successful show (even if not an immediate financial success) without selling single knife if he/she meets new clients, takes orders, educates themselves and generally promotes themselves and their knives. Your opinions?

Was the show promoted / advertised to a great enough extent to best get enough "Knife Buyers" to support the show? Custom Knife Collectors/Potential buyers are obviously very important however so are the un-informed, casual, curious and interested attendees who may have no intention of current purchase but offer a great opportunity to bring in new collectors.

I'm hearing this new show being compared to Blade Show and the Arkansas Show, is that a fair comparison? How many years did it take for the Arkansas Show to become the very successful show it is today? I think it's probably accurate to say it wasn't an overnight success?

Even though I was very pleased and excited to see this combining of shows by two great organizations, I cautioned from the very beginning that expectations for this first show were perhaps too high. Just getting this join show off the ground in a new venue was a huge undertaking. If lines out the door and most makers selling out was the expectation, it was probably a little over optimistic.

As always, I thank you in advance for your interest and views / opinions.
 
Some good insight, Kevin. I'm not trying to down the show. I think it has great potential. From what I hear it was a lot better than the ABS Expo or the Guild show have been in recent years. I think with a little time and effort it could easily grow into a show of the same caliber that Little Rock has been. I'm glad I did the show. Besides new orders it helped me gain some perspective into the market.
 
Great topic Kevin. Insightful comments with expected participation for the discussion. From what I saw there is room for optimism.

I never got to attend the ABS Expo, so I cannot give a comparison. I was at the Guild Show two years ago and feel that this was a better show. For an inaugural show I feel that it was great. Shows need time to mature and this has the ability to be a can't miss event in the years to come.

As to what the organizations should do I can't say as I am not a promotions expert. I do feel the makers could promote themselves and their attendance and have a positive impact.

I look forward to seeing this discussion progress.

Chris
 
I thought that it was a great show, good flow of potential customers through the room. There where only a handful of the usual collectors there that I saw at least. I took 14 knives and sold all but one of them. and all to new customers. I also won the best fixed blade and the Moran memorial damascus awards.

I did hear some complaints about the bad Banjo music coming from the back of the room though :)
 
In my observation, from the back of the room, there were plenty of buyers. The traffic flow was steady. Those who were buying appeared to be very well informed. Quality work was selling in all parts of the room. Work that wasn't up to par didn't move much at all. It was a very discriminating crowd, a group where a three piece hunter with uneven plunges or wonky grinds wasn't going to sell, even at a $150 price point. I had what I would consider a successful show. I set out to complete my voting membership process, which I did. I had two complex knives, and I had told myself from the beginning that if I could sell one of them, I would consider the show a success. I ended up selling one of the complex knives, plus two more. I met many, many quality makers including alot of folks I interact with on Bladeforums or Knifedogs whom I'd not previously met in person. I met at least half a dozen collectors who either bought knives from me or will in the future, all of whom I'd not met before. Overall, I thought it went very well.
 
I think Chris hit the nail on the head. I felt there were several makers who were wondering what the organizations did to advertise the event but did little to none themselves. I know I'm new to the scene but it seems to me that if a maker wants to have a good show, they need to set themselves up for it. Advertising your work is not bragging, it is marketing and if you want to be successful, you have to do it. The real advertising behemoth for the show should be the makers themselves. They have the potential to reach far more customers than the show promoters.

I completely agree with Kevin on what could/should represent a successful show. I sold three knives out of eight and had a huge show because I took five orders and handed out at least 25 cards to people who seemed very interested in my work. Honestly, I'd have considered it a good show if I'd not sold anything.

Another thing I'd like to throw out there is relevance. Some makers didn't have a good show because their stuff just wasn't relevant. I truly believe knifemaking is an art form and I believe an artist should follow their inspiration and make what they want but, like Chris and I discussed at the show, sometimes you have to decide if you want to be a starving artist or a successful artist. Makers who just sit in their comfort zone and never push themselves to be more creative are likely to fall behind.

Finally, what about the collector organizations? Did they do their part? It is a symbiotic relationship between makers and collectors. Without the successful shows collectors will find it difficult to meet and get to know new makers. Relationships are the basis of knife collecting and the shows provide this. Obviously, without collectors, makers are dead in the water. Both have responsibilities to aid in the success of the other.

Again, I loved the show and got everything I wanted out of it and more. I think next year will be even better now that people know what to expect.

Bob
 
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Good comments all.

As pointed out, this show will probably grow and improve. Any weaknesses will likely be tweaked and tailored as we go along. I am happy with the way it went as far as my sales and most other aspects. It's not an instant success but pretty close. I think it will be a success and rival any show as long as all do their part in years to come. I see it being a part of my calendar in the future. Word will get out and buzz will be generated. Discussions like this allow each of us to state where we stand on the show.

As it stands, I will be back and redouble my efforts to offer several knives that would be available at the show.
 
I may be wrong but this is my impression from what I have read so far.

#1 Show promotion seems to have been aimed primarily toward the knife makers but not enough exposure to the public and those who would be purchasing knives.
#2 Sounds like the table arrangement was a bit cramped. If the table holders are uncomfortable it is hard to remain cheerful through the show.

In my opinion these are both easy to fix. Hopefully those in charge of the show will learn from this first one and grow it into one of the great knife shows.
 
any idea as to how the purchasing trends were between Guild and ABS or in other words stock removal and forged? I think the guys in this forum did well to show their wares which would be available but this forum tends to cater mostly to the ABS crowd. Not sure if anyone had the CKCA booth available for collectors to stop by and chat or join the organization. Maybe a dinner in the future could be considered with an open invitation to non members to try to perk up additional interest, membership and attendance.
 
I did not have a table at this years show, but I was able to swing by for a few hours on Saturday. I thought it was a fun mix of quality knives with a lot of talent in one room. I have since sent an email requesting a table. Hopefully they will have room for me at next year's show.
 
My overall feel for the show was very positive. I do believe that the knife makers all had a very pleasant weekend. I know that I thoroughly enjoyed myself. I got to see many old friends as well as to meet several that I've never had the chance to talk to before. I don't believe that I've ever seen such a gathering of ABS Masters in one place before.

As far as sales went, I felt like the lower to middle priced knives did fairly well but that many of the upper end knives went unsold. There were definitely exceptions to this and that isn't just my opinion as I heard it stated by others (collectors included). Some collectors did have a very worthwhile experience with some beautiful pieces going into their collections and I observed an overseas buyer (agent) making several purchases of some of the better knives in the show. I don't feel like most of the local public was aware of the event, however. This I feel should improve as the shows progresses and matures. Hopefully the local media will do more next year with some interviews or promos. Heck, we had at least three participants in the "Forged in Fire" TV series there as table holders which should be a draw by itself.

My personal sales were good but not outstanding. I actually had more first time buyers this weekend than I did in Little Rock but my regular customers weren't there so it all balanced out.

I'm anxious to heard what everyone else thought of the weekend. I enjoyed it enough to sign up for 2016 while there.

Gary
 
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As a Collector, I had a great time and saw an incredible array of knives by some of the very best Makers.

I picked up a few pieces that I had spoken for before the show and also bought a couple of others while I was there.

I saw no advertising for the show other than what I saw on this Forum, Makers Social Media pages, or my ABS News Letter.....nothing on TV, news print, etc.,....like was said, much more coverage is given to the seasonal Firearms Shows.

I'm pleased to hear it'll be back next year and that's a good sign....see y'all there. ;)
 
I wonder if it would have been better attended if it wasn't two weeks after another big knife show. I know they serve very different markets but the timing wasn't ideal.
 
I made a 10 plus hour drive each way and am glad I went.
I've been collecting for the past 6 years and attended Blade every year since 2009.
The smaller venue loaded with high quality people and their work was very pleasant experience.
Picking my own name in in the Tony Bose drawing was icing on a great weekend.
 
I have suspected that some folks sat this show out to see what it turned into. Sometimes it's hard to justify the travel expenses, use of vacation time, ect on a show that has no track record. I could be wrong about this though. There were people that attended that I had hoped to meet that I was unable to, hard to recognize folks when all I ever see is a name. I had hoped to meet Dudley and Ken we probably brushed past one another without knowing it. I got to meet Danbo and Preston, which I enjoyed.

As Dudley mentioned, makers social media is one Avenue of promotion that works. This is one of the things Bob and I talked about. I still think there are methods makers could use to make contact with folks that are not even on their social media pages. I think about all the videos that Karl has made and Nick did the same thing. Those videos can be viewed by anyone, this means more exposure for the maker, the show and custom knives in general. Coming off the heels of Forged In Fire this type of exposure could draw in a entirely new collector base. That could be good for the makers the show and custom knives in general.

Times change, I just don't want knife shows to go the way of the dinosaurs.

Chris
 
As a local KC collector I would enjoy sharing my opinion of the show. Now this is my opinion, and Ryan has his own, just like many of you have your opinion, you may not like what I mention but to each their own. Many know us and know we strive to promote the knife industry and makers. We neither belong to ABS or Guild so we are not playing favoritism with either organization.

I am usually more reserved and observe and at times I speak my mind, sometimes enthusiastically.

I was unable to attend Friday due to work, but Ryan was able to. I had called him a few times in the afternoon to check in. He made mention each time I had called that let’s say “you can see the door”, meaning not many people in the room circulating, besides makers, dealers and some collectors. So for Friday that was all I knew.

But I was able to attend Saturday and Sunday. We arrived approximately 30 minutes before the door opened. Below are 2 pictures of the lobby 20 minutes before the opening of the doors. Let’s say it didn’t fill that lobby between then and the doors opening.





It wasn’t till approximately 10-1030am that I noticed more traffic in the room. The tables were kinda crammed together and not a whole lot of room in the isles for passing people at tables. The traffic I felt died around 3ish.

As for Sunday, I would say approximately 1/3rd of the room had not returned for the day and by 1pm most were packing up and leaving.

So some points I would like to mention about this show.
• I like the setup of the integrating the guild with abs within the tables instead of strictly guild on one side and abs on the other (similar to how blade is setup). It really shows variety between the two when walking the room or isles.
• Lighting was horrible in the ballroom for this kind of show and showcasing knives.
• Things that I heard several times over was “I was unaware of this show until I got this invite from such and such maker”

Excited to hear of the show I introduced myself and Ryan to both organizations and gave some advice, as a collector and local, with a list of restaurants and advertising information locally.

As with any show, any tableholders needs to inquire on approximately attendance they expect, what advertising they will be doing, etc.

As a local we saw nor heard NO local advertising!!!!! There were NO billboards (did you know I-35 is a parking lot morning and evening 5 days a week around the downtown loop), NO on-air commercials (Tv nor radio), NO media showed up to do a spot on tv, NO media spots to promote the show. No events posting locally online.

Did you know that KC has the #3 rated morning show nationally? He is also #1 locally. And he is pro-knife guy!

The organizations got a list of top law firms and doctors locally. Ok, that’s great but really think about this. How much mail do these people receive? Who actually opens their mail? I can tell you as an office manager of a doctor I scan thru their mail and only give pertinent mail to them. So I bet most of that mail really didn’t pass their desk or eyes.

Guess what also… The NFL KC Chiefs, first home game was on Thursday night. There could have been something advertised on the jumbo tron or something similar. There was none.

If you rely on your current collectors and not reaching out to new blood how are you to grow, as a maker or organization.

Only advertising was the show flyer (list of makers) in Blade and Knives Illustrated. As a reader many thumb thru this and didn’t pop with attraction to make someone stop and checkout the ad.

I believe some social media was used and likes are great but how are those likes converted into attendance to the show?

Makers were to send invites to their collectors, which is great, but many didn’t hear about this show prior to receiving those invites. Makers should be reaching out to their collectors about events they will be attending.

They produced a show book, similar to Blade, better quality paper was used. Nice as it was, but I do not feel it was really needed as a collector and attendee, IMO.

So then it’s location. KC is great and has a lot to offer. Things that have been discussed prior to the organizations was location was not the most ideal. Downtown KC is limited on restaurants and ammenities. You have to use public transportation to get anywhere. Which can be costly. Also Downtown KC is not the safest at night. Hope you were not walking to far at night. And parking costs are high too. It is understandable the history and the nastalgia with having it there, 42 years ago, but a lot has changed in 42 years.

A better location would have been Crown Center or the Country Club Plaza or venue close to the airport.

Just like Atlanta, you have to pay to shuttle from the airport. It’s common.

Blade hires a production company to produce their show. And they do a very good job and have gotten a lot of issues worked out in the many years they have done it.

Arkansas would be close, in size wise. Arkansas has grown each year but you can see that they actively advertise and promote in the media (tv and radio) as the show gets closer locally. They now have a 3rd party production company to help them, which will take their show to the next level, IMO.

They did announce they will put this show on again next year. Which is great, just hope that the committee hears the feedback and take it into account to improve next year.


**Side Note from Ryan....both organizations need to make changes to get up to speed with the current and not the past or they both will fade and die. **
 
My overall experience was good. I sold some knives, visited with old/new friends, and did some educating with potential future buyers. The crowds were light. Everyone says it takes about 3-5 years or more for a show to build a following. Hopefully I'll be able to attend the next ones to see if that is proves true. From limited experience, organizing an event with as many details as this one had/has creates challenges and allows room for improvements. Table assignments-(Is this based on some type of seniority?), table placement in the venue -(they were a touch close together), food for the buyers to purchase instead of leaving the hall to eat (I wonder how many didn't come back).
 
I was there all three days. I will offer opinions from three views:

1. As a maker I was proud to be in that room. Never have I been in a room with so many talented, gifted and humble individuals. The knives were many and beautiful. Competition was fierce. It was a buyers paradise.

2. This leads to my collector side. A person could find just about multiples of anything to add to their collection in that room. When was the last time you were at a show and had your choice of TWO gorgeous cut-and-shoots (Bump and Culver)? The variety of excellent knives was awesome.

3. Now about everything else....great venue, just need to tweek a few things. This year the tables were 36" wide, a change to 30" tables gives both more room between for makers and wider isles for the buyers. I think we all need to be at different table locations next year. As makers, this means the "choice" table locations are given to others from year to year. It also means that all the buyers have to walk past all of us and in so doing, find new makers to follow.

It has already been mentioned, but advertising needs improvement on all levels. While there was advertising done by the ABS and Guild, none was done at a local level and that must be changed to bring in more local buyers. This show won't survive just on people flying in to see us. As makers, we must contact our buyers and collectors to let them know about this show. We need to talk on all of our forums and social media sites. Collectors need to be brought in too. CKCA was conspicuously absent this year. I did see several collectors that I know are members of CKCA but CKCA was absent as an organization. Perhaps in future years it would be possible to get a list of their members to invite.

I guess all in all I saw a lot of people having fun with knives, just like we all like to do. I heard some complaints too. A lot are the same complaints that are heard after every show.

This is a brand new show. It is being run by OUR groups for us. We have the opportunity to make this a fantastic show. We might all have to work a little bit to pull this off but we can either chip in or sit on our butts and complain. Lets build our show the way we build our knives.....the way we want them!

Kevin

PS. If any of you have ideas for next year's show and you want to send them to me (message, email, phone) I will get your ideas to the Board of Directors of the Knifemakers Guild. (I am not a board member but I know them and I want this show to work, so I will send them your ideas.)
 
It was my best show ever in terms of everything. I sold knives, I took knife orders, I was allowed to give a cut n shoot presentation, I met nice people all weekend, saw my cousin Lila again after 25 years, ate great BBQ and burgers. We had a spacious double room on the 16th floor with a breathtaking view of the most interesting city I can remember. Sure it costs money to attend this one but they all cost money.
I'm going back next year for sure.

The numbers may have been down from the locals but how many of them read Blade Magazine and surf knife maker forums? I would think a well placed bill board a few weeks before the show would work a miracle toward attendance.
 
Very pleased to see the abundance of positive discussion here. A bit surprised at the varying opinions as to the attendance, however the good news is that everyone seems to be fairly upbeat and wants to see the show return next year. I’m convinced the joint ABS-Guild show is the way to go, it’s just going to take time to work the kinks out.

In regard to the CKCA, we weren’t absent it's just hasn’t proved to be the best use of our resources in setting up our booth at shows all over the country. We will always set-up at Blade Show, and have set-up at other shows early on, however we now look at shows on a show by show basics and base our decision to attend on availability of member support to man the booth, logistics, cost and projected attendance. The CKCA was invited to attend but we declined. Seems we need to make arrangements to attend next year.

Our forum is always open to promote knife shows as the ICCE show was promoted via threads on the CKCA forum.

Ben, I certainly enjoyed our conversation today!
 
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