The Lansky does not like me...

[qwikkota]

Ok, I've never been good at sharpening but I figured the Lansky with its guide rods and built in angle slots would be fool proof. I've had it for 2 years or so and never had any success with it. I've been able to improve a dull edge of course but sure as hell can't get it hair shaving sharp like most knives come new. My most recent failure came from my CRKT Kiss tanto. Its a user and got dull so I tried to get it back in shape. I read the entire document that was posted about sharpening tips, very long and well written. Got the sharpened edge to where it had a bevel on the unsharpened side and then switched grits etc. Its a chisel edge so not as easy to sharpen but I still think I should be able to get it slicing nice. I used the sharpie ink on the edge to see where my stones were hitting and even on the 30 degree angle only the inner edge of the ink is being removed. Have to hold the guide rod on the top ledge of the guide rack where there is no slot. Maybe I have the rods in upside down?? If the grit side is facing down does the rod leg face down as well or come up from below? I just realized that may be my problem so I'll try that tonight but any tips and techniques are welcome here.

The instructions say to sharpen towards the blade on an angled push, lift, pull back, then go in on the same angle so as to work down the blade towards the tip. Is that the best way? Oil or no oil? Thanks a lot guys.

 

[akennedy73]

I'm sure others have lots of advice but here's mine:

Its a chisel edge so not as easy to sharpen but I still think I should be able to get it slicing nice.

Lanskys aren't really designed to sharpen chisels, though it can be done.

I used the sharpie ink on the edge to see where my stones were hitting and even on the 30 degree angle only the inner edge of the ink is being removed. Have to hold the guide rod on the top ledge of the guide rack where there is no slot.

This is probably the crux of your problem. The chisel edge is simply too steep - greater than 30 degrees. Unless you remove a lot of steel, you're not going to be sharpening the cutting edge of the bevel.

Maybe I have the rods in upside down?? If the grit side is facing down does the rod leg face down as well or come up from below? I just realized that may be my problem so I'll try that tonight but any tips and techniques are welcome here.

When I use a Lansky (generally only to remove a lot of material on a new blade to create the bevel I want) I put the rod so that it comes up from below and I insert it as far as it will go until the 90 degree angle of the rod stops its insertion. I do this simply because it always maintains the same angle of the stone in relation to the guide holes (I don't have to guess how far the rod needs to be inserted).

The instructions say to sharpen towards the blade on an angled push, lift, pull back, then go in on the same angle so as to work down the blade towards the tip. Is that the best way? Oil or no oil? Thanks a lot guys.

Definitely use oil otherwise your stone will clog with cuttings. It's a good idea to wash and even scrub the stones with a scouring pad periodically to clear out the stone's pores of any cuttings.

And last, you may want to consider getting a knife with better quality steel. 420J2 steel doesn't have much wear resistance - so once you do get a good edge on your KISS, you'll lose it after much use.

 

[psycho78]

Ok, I've never been good at sharpening but I figured the Lansky with its guide rods and built in angle slots would be fool proof. I've had it for 2 years or so and never had any success with it. I've been able to improve a dull edge of course but sure as hell can't get it hair shaving sharp like most knives come new. My most recent failure came from my CRKT Kiss tanto. Its a user and got dull so I tried to get it back in shape. I read the entire document that was posted about sharpening tips, very long and well written. Got the sharpened edge to where it had a bevel on the unsharpened side and then switched grits etc. Its a chisel edge so not as easy to sharpen but I still think I should be able to get it slicing nice. I used the sharpie ink on the edge to see where my stones were hitting and even on the 30 degree angle only the inner edge of the ink is being removed. Have to hold the guide rod on the top ledge of the guide rack where there is no slot. Maybe I have the rods in upside down?? If the grit side is facing down does the rod leg face down as well or come up from below? I just realized that may be my problem so I'll try that tonight but any tips and techniques are welcome here.

The instructions say to sharpen towards the blade on an angled push, lift, pull back, then go in on the same angle so as to work down the blade towards the tip. Is that the best way? Oil or no oil? Thanks a lot guys.

I have a lansky and I've been using it for years. Lets see if I can help.

The rod comes up from the bottom. Thats probably why youre not getting the results you want. I have put every knife imaginable into my Lansky, including the widest of kitchen knives, and have always been able to find a suitable slot.

I dont think that the push, lift, pull is a very good technique actually. I saw that in the instructions and was like :jerkit:

Instead, I take the stone and make long strokes along the edge, starting at the bottom of the stone and pulling down as I run the stone toward the edge in one full stroke.

Here are some pics to help.

This is the way I use my Lansky. I just hold the thing in my hand.

Go across the whole edge and pull the stone down at the same time. I do about 5 strokes.

Looks dangerous, but it isnt. Just flip the thing over in your hands and put the rod in the slot for the other side, and drag it across again for 5 or 6 strokes.

Hope this helped. I love my Lansky. The Opinel that I'm demonstrating is sharp enough to shave your face with thanks to this system.

 

[qwikkota]

You guys rock! Those pics are just what I need, def need visual aids. I think I have the guide rods in the right side, I'll check it again on a different knife. I have a # of high quality knives but they are for my collection and don't need sharpening. My Kershaw Vapor will be next on the attempts. I take it you have to get a feel for which grit you need due to the dullness of the knife. I will use some scotchbrite on the stones to remove metal shavings and keep using the oil. I think it makes for a more polished edge when done.

 

[psycho78]

The stone I'm showing in my pics is the extra fine stone. I usually dont go any more coarse than the dark green (medium) stone. The coarse red stone is only used for super dull and blunt edges to reprofile. The extra course black stone....yeah you might as well go use a brick. That thing is more trouble than it is help. You'll know when to switch em up. Personally, I dont use the oil. It's messy, and I've read literature (Juranitch) that says it's even counterproductive. I've been sharpening a long time, and personally have never seen any better performance from using oil. I just scrub my stones well, and you have to do that anyway if you use oil. *shrug*

Oh and here's another tip. After youre done with the lansky, Get yourself an old leather belt, or scrap piece of leather and strop your edge. This will polish the edge and get rid of any burrs.

Glad you liked the pics, and good to hear they helped you.

 

[qwikkota]

Yeah, I have been wanting to get a strop and def want a cheap version like a belt. I only used the coarse one last night to try and remove a nick in the blade. The oil cuts down on abrasion which in its essence is what sharpening is so its definitely counter productive. Cleaning them tonight. I appreciate the help!

 

[akennedy73]

This is what Juranitch says about the use of oil:

"You're better off with a dry hone. I don't care what every sharpening book in the world says. You can save that oil and use it in your crankcase. The basic problem with using oil for sharpening is that as you sharpen, grit from the hone and steel particles from the blade become suspended in the oil and form slurry. The very fine edge you're putting on the blade actually runs into the particles of hone suspended in the oil. It's as though you were trying to sharpen your blade by running it through a sand pile."

Oil is used to lift cuttings from the stone thereby preventing the need for cleaning the stone as often. Essentially it keeps the cutting "teeth" of the stone free to continue cutting.

Although I agree with Juranitch that the slurry will degrade the fine edge, I think this is relevant during the later stages of sharpening. When I use a fine stone, I'll use it dry. But for a coarse stone, which entails a lot of cutting action, I think oil is to be recommended since it will keep your stone "fresh and clean" to continue cutting without having to scrub it clean as frequently. As you move to a finer stone for the final polishing of the edge, the oil is indeed counterproductive.

What matters is that your keep your stone clean as you sharpen, whether it's from scrubbing or the use of oil.

 

[psycho78]

Well dang. You beat me to it. I was just now looking for the exact quotes for the reasoning against the oil in Juranitch's book. I hated citing him and not putting a direct quotation.

But yes. The oil is messy as all hell too. You have to clean your stones anyway, and sharpening should take 10 minutes at best....so just go without it.

 

[akennedy73]

You may also want to consider convexing the bevel with sandpaper and mousepad. It's the method I've moved to with many of my knives. A short intro is here: http://bill-hay.com/Convex/Convex.htm

Be aware you can easily scratch the finish of your blades! So if you mind having scratches on a mirror-finish blade, this probably isn't the method for you....

And here's a basic description from http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=26036 :

"Go to your nearest auto supply store and get some 600 grit sandpaper. Mylar-backed wet/dry sandpaper works best. This is the stuff used to sand automotive paint between coats. Get the self-stick kind. If they have higher grits, get a couple of sheets of those, too, 1200 grit is generally the next step up. Go nuts. It’s cheap.

Stick the sandpaper to the mouse pad and trim the edges. This is your new sharpening system. If you have both 600 and 1200 grit, apply one to each side of the mousepad. Make sure you have a work surface you don’t mind scratching up. If you have a double-sided mousepad sharpener, you don’t want to work on your kitchen counter or dining room table. Your spouse will kill you.

This system requires a stropping motion when sharpening, using an edge-trailing stroke. That means that unlike other sharpening methods you don’t lead with the edge, you lead with the spine. Image an old barbershop with the barber stropping his razor, stroking away from the edge. That’s the idea.

To establish your angle, lay the knife flat on the pad, edge toward you. Lift the spine slightly while pulling lightly toward you. Continue lifting until the edge bites into the sandpaper. That’s your stropping angle.

Press down lightly and stroke the knife away from you, spine first, moving from heel to tip. When you reach the end STOP and lift the knife straight up off the sandpaper. Don’t roll it off or lift the spine further or you’ll mess up the edge you’re creating. Turn the knife over and stroke back the other way with the edge away from you, pulling the spine toward you at the same angle as the previous stroke. The really cool thing is that the mouse pad is soft enough that it conforms to the angle of the knife edge. As long as you’re pretty close you’ll be fine. This will give you an amazing edge in a fairly short amount of time. If you want to polish it up, use the higher grit sandpaper on the other side of the mouse pad.

Because the mousepad is soft, it deforms lightly around the edge of the knife and gives you a slightly convex bevel. As we’ve discussed, a convex edge has many advantages but can be difficult to achieve without a belt sander. This is one way to create or maintain a convex edge without serious power tools.

This is the same technique as stropping (below) but with a different abrasive."

 

[qwikkota]

That is the lengthy article I read and I have already purchased some 800 and 1000 grit paper in addition to 600 and the stuff I have on hand for polishing the non-edge part of the blade. I have several mouse pads laying around that I will use for that. A buddy of mine uses that on his japanese kitchen knives that we use to filet our catch and they are like new razor sharp.

 

[TexasNativeDRJH]

Hey there fellow Houstonian (Clear Lake area I assume). I use the same technique that Pyscho78 uses and I have had great results, although I use my new Lansky stones with my old Smiths sharpener clamp since it holds better.

As mentioned above, chisel grinds aren't the best for this type of setup. I have had to reprofile chisel ground edges to get them sharp, and it takes a very long time- up to 3 hours, but hey I was watching the Astros game while I was doing it so it helped the time pass by. They have a diamond set that cuts a lot faster, but for the price you could get a Sharpmaker.

Keep at it, and good luck

 

[qwikkota]

Yes, I work in Clear Lake (NASA) and live in La Porte, hey the houses are cheap! I had much better success with my Kershaw standard angle knife, it got to the point of almost shaving. Still working on the burr. I think I am using too much pressure when sharpening. The Tanto is a very steep angle and I slide it down the stone in hand with the stone flat on the table, like an old benchstone. I have the kit with 5 stones and a serrated stone, so its better than the basic 3 stone kit but not the diamond kit. I may get a Sharpmaker eventually but I'd like to use one before I did.

Cleaning the stones seemed to help, I think you can use scouring powder like comet right??

And I'm not brave enough to have a knife in hand while watching the Stro's, I'd likely cut myself from all the yelling, hah.

 

[akennedy73]

Still working on the burr. I think I am using too much pressure when sharpening.

Too much pressure is very bad - here's what happens (at least according to my Grandfather who taught me how to sharpen):

You're using a lot of pressure on one side and it's going great - you create a real nice burr. The problem is when you flip the knife over to sharpen the other side of the bevel. You apply pressure and instead of grinding off the burr you've created, you're actually breaking it off. So you continue on, and you create another burr. Flip the knife and bear down with a lot of pressure - and again you break the burr off. Again and again, working diligently but never seeming to get a good edge.

Once you've got a good burr going it's real important not to apply to much pressure when you flip the knife over. Go lightly and you'll gently grind the burr off - go hard and you'll just break it off.

Using a lot of pressure is ok if you're just trying to remove a lot of material and create a bevel. But it's counterproductive for actual sharpening.

 

[gud4u]

Select one of the stones and use it to cut off the burr - from both sides of the edge bevel - by hand sharpening.

Just raise the spine slightly - 3 to 5 degrees - on both sides of the bevel - with light honing pressure. Just remove enough metal to remove the burr.

This will create a very narrow 'micro bevel', barely visible, which will:
- Remove the burr.
- Strengthen the cutting edge.
- Have imperceptable effect on sharpness.

Removing a burr by stropping may work, or it may just result in a sharpened burr which will collapse immediately for any cutting effort beyond paper slicing.

Hope this helps!

 

[AMO]

Do You guys use any grit on your strop