The last fold & you FFF it up

indian george

indian george

Joined
Feb 15, 1999
Messages
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The art of knife making is very challenging, but ye who has never tried making damascus are missing a totally different experience. When you have just one more weld to do, to make the billet up to 480 layers and you mess it up. You feel like kicking yourself in the ass. I also kicked Bertha too. (she is my press)
 
George, You big show off! 480 layers? Do you have nickel in the mix? It has screwed me up a few times. I have trouble welding nickel to nickel. Tell us what happened.:confused:
 
George.Before giving up try grinding the billet clean and shinny then try welding it again.If this doesn't work try slipping a thin piece of metal in the middle of the billet like a wide metal cutting bandsaw blade or a piece of banding material,or anything.You will have to fold and weld one more time to keep the layers even with this thicker piece in the mix but it will usually save the billet.

Bruce You know that nickel wont weld to nickel don't upu.It has to have something between the layers.I have heard that if you over heat with the nickel in the mix you will burn it out and cause a shut.

Bruce
 
Bruce E. Thanks for the input, I will try that.
Bruce B. This billet wasn't the one put 1018, 1084, 1095, O-1 & nickel in. The one with the nickel welded up nice. The one that didn't weld was just made out of 1084, 1095 & 15N20. I replaced the thermocoupling in my forge and it wasn't the correct one for my controller, it was reading 2400 Deg. but it was more like 1800 deg. when I tried welding it.
 
Yeah I know nickel needs another metal between the layers. Found out the hard way %$@&%^. I havent tried it but I heard you can soak the unwelded billet in muratic acid for a couple days (diluted) and the scale will disolve in the unwelded area thus opening the void for the flux to get in. Then simply weld it again. If this really works I can dig some steel back out of my boo boo box.

I broke my thermocouple once and had to order a new one one time. I sure missed it. Sometimes the steel colors fool me. My forge tops out at 2400 deg. so that helps with welding without a pyrometer.
 
I just tried making some damascus for the frst time today.I managed to weld 2 chainsaw blades together and folded it 3 times,forged it to somewhat of a blade shape,was about done when it started to rain.I doubt it will be useable,but at least it welded.By the way I don't have a boo boo box,mine is called a learning box and boy is it full.
 
I don't have a boo boo box either, but have about a 10 lb. pile of steel sitting on the corner of my bench loaded with boo boo's. Some of it will make nice bolsters.
On chainsaw damascus Bruce B. gave me a good hint. You take 1 x 1 x 1/16 wall square tubing, cut to 4 to 6 " lengths put in powdered 1084, chainsaw blades and a squit of WD-40 and gas weld up the ends. My first attempt didn't work I put in to much graphite to bring up the carbon content. I also put in some nickel & 15N20, I get carried away with ideas before I have the basics understood.
 
Bruce & Bruce
Now I know what you mean!!! When you put nickel in the billet and start doing the folds you may end up on a nickel layer ( guess how I found out ) when welding. Since I put nickel in the two billets I was working with today ever time I did a fold I added 1095 (.030) to the billet. Only got up to 240 layers.
 
OUCH!!!!! That would suck,Hitting nickel to nickel.I havent tried any with nickel in the mix yet and I am not sure if I really want to....
I don't have a boo-boo box anymore.What I have started doing is grinding all the scale off a messed up piece and then cleaning up the edges.Then I take a metal cutting saw and cutt the bar up into as many pieces and sizes as I have to to slit open all voids and blisters.Then I throw all this into a bucket.Then when I want to make a bar of something wild I will thake these pieces and start welding them on one at a time to a flat bar (handle) This will make a layer count gain quickly as each piece is already multiple layers.
I made a couple of billets last month or the one before that were 1200 layers (without the boo-boo pieces)
You can add these small pieces inside of a normal billet after you have welded the first weld then weld a piece on each side or just one side,Then after you stretch it out you will have big layers and tight thin layers,then fold it again and add another piece or two then stretch and fold,You get the idea..
Just a way I have found to save Damascus.It is also a way to make a small quick high layer billet for a small order.
Bruce
Hang in there George,It took me years and allot of flustrations to get my first billet done correctly.
:D :D :D :D
 
Bruce E. I have made a number of billets with 1084, 1095 & 15N20 so far. It is my experimentations that I get carried away with all the time.
 
Don't feel alone George...I may have two to four billets going at any one time.And something else looks ike it should start another billet or I will get a crazy idea and start another one.I couldn spends weks making Damascus only and not get any knives made if I would let myself...
Good Luck and Have fun,
Bruce:cool:
 
Alright George...Way not to give up..It looks great ,Now lets see the pictures of the finished Knife..
Bruce
 
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