the last one just made, Sheath.

Dan Gray

Dan Gray

Joined
Jun 25, 2001
Messages
8,474
newest Sheath more or less the customers design
tooled on both sides
made to wear under the belt on ether side
and cross draw.:)

I wanted to add for the guys just starting with sheaths..
this sheath has almost 140 holes put in it for hand stitching,
two needles on the ends of tapered
hand sewing shoe makers thread
so that's over 280 times a needle goes through this sheath
after back stitching.
gray-rao.JPG
 
That is beautiful!

I have only made sheaths in Kydex to this point, but am truly in awe of talent like that with leather.

Thanks for sharing it.

Tom
 
That's pretty tooling! I like the overall design of the pouch & belt slot. Very neat job of flowing the stitching together where the rows join. Not crazy about fringes in general, but my guess is that this is for a cowboy shooter or rendezvous enthusiast so I won't argue with their taste (while they are armed anyway :) :p ).

Since the sheath goes under the belt, is it lined with kydex or is the stiffness of the leather enough to keep the sheath from collapsing when the blade is extracted? (This question from someone who has to cinch his belt pretty tight these days to keep his britches up. ;) )
 
Nice work, Dan. Keep it up and we'll nominate you the Grand Poobah Leather Guru of New England! All kidding aside... well done.
 
Thanks guys

J
I got mail today, thanks, extra wasn't necessary
I owe Tess a back rub, you a pat on the head :D
and I'll give Danny a pat on the back
of coarse I'll want the burp cloth.:D :confused:


for Danny: not you :) :D


RokJok
it's made of 14-15 oz leather and pretty stiff.
I wouldn't cinch it up real tight we'll see :)
 
That sheath is very nicely done, Dan. It has to be extremely sturdy when made from saddle skirting. Any particulasr reason for using such heavy leather? Sandy
 
thanks Sandy
it was the customers request
as was the over all design I had to change a few things
that just wouldn't work with his design and he was OK with that.
a collaboration between us both I guess you'd say..:)

I wanted to add for the guys just starting with sheaths..
this sheath has almost 140 holes for hand stitching,
two needles on the ends of tapered
hand sewing shoe makers thread
so that's over 280 times a needle goes through this sheath
after back stitching.

:)
 
14 oz Ugggh! I know the type - they think the thicker the better???
Then again "the customer is always right". NOT!

Nicely done Dan - that slotted style sheath was used a lot by the old Mtn Men and Indians - when the belt wraps over the top like that it really makes for a secure set up. Don't know if I've seen a "convertible" like that one like that before though.

280 time Eh? I kind of chuckle sometimes when I hear the new guys "complaining" about all that hand stitching on a knife sheath - the last lined belt I made was 46" long and 4" wide - sewn along all four edges that's 100 inches of stitching at 6 stitches per inch = 1200 stitches total. I do at last one of those a month and at least a couple of money belts (sewn along three side ONLY LOL:rolleyes:). Then there are the holsters - lined and unlined - the knife sheaths, the pouches, etc. And I won't even count the number of stitches needed to do beadwork! So goes the life of a leather craftsman..... :D
Actually I've been stitching for so long now I can practically do it in my sleep - just takes lots of practice and for me it's not tedious - it's a form of meditation.

BTW just here's a quote from the book "Early Knives & Beaded Sheaths of the American Frontier" by John Baldwin
I can think of no better way to honor and proudly display any knife, than in a beaded, tacked, or other decorated sheath. The beautiful sheaths created for storing the knife elevate the knife one step higher. It celebrates the knife it houses.
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And Dan I can think of no finer examples of that celebration than your recent work.
 
OK Chuck you managed to get my face all red again :o
I know IG will say it matches my head:grumpy: :)

the hand stitching is the bigist thing on something like this
man a 46" belt ,, sure is a lot of work,,:( :)
Thanks again :)
 
Dan - Realized after I posted that it might seem to some I was stealing your thunder but I wasn't - just adding to your info that good work can take lot's of work - there really are no shortcuts to doing it right. (yes you can use a machine, but machine sewn just ain't the same - although about that 300th stitch I sometimes think that maybe a stitcher wouldn't be so bad after all :D)
 
no problem Chuck I didn't think that at all..
I'm thinking you'er right about the sticher though :D
 
Somehow I seem to find that the most vocal detractors of such an instrument are those that do not have one. I sewed by hand for over a half century and one of my favorite "little helpers" is my sewing machine, a Tippman "Boss" that I acquired a few years ago. No longer do I cringe when viewing the task of sewing a fully lined buscadero belt with 30 bullet loops, and two fully lined holsters for a gent who had to turn sideways to get into my shop. Granted, the "Boss" does have its drawbacks--- which are minor when considering the time involved, or the pain, or the look on the customers face when he finds out that his rig does not cost as much. I have heard all the discussions involving the neatness of the hand stitch, the strength of same, lack of machine marks on stitch line from the feed dogs and all the associated chit chat used to convince others that machine stitching is inferior. If machine stitching is properly done by a competent operator using a good machine, I would defy the average person to tell the difference in the type of stitch-- hand or machine. A thread with a 30 pound breaking strength does not increase in strength because it is being pulled tight by human muscles instead of machine tension I doubt that one customer in fifty could tell the difference or even care which type of stitching was involved. Tell him the difference in labor and pricing involved and you will get his attention in a heartbeat. Most often the customer does not have the option of choice if he desires leatherwork from a craftsman that has no machine. Some of the finest leather craftsmen I know do not have these machines as they can be quite costly, usually have to be sent away for repairs or adjustments. Few of the people making knife sheaths are leather workers or make a large quantity of sheaths. Most are knifemakers who want to make the entire package themselves or haven't found someone close by to farm out the work. Some do not wish to send their knives away to be fitted as the shipping and insurance is an additional cost to be passed on to their customeers. There are many areas in the construction of leather goods that can not be sewn by the average machine and hand stitching must be utilized. I still do a lot, but only where I "have" to and not because I "want" to-----Sandy
 
Dan,
I am no leather expert by any means but you really "rang the bell" with that one. Nice work!

Craig
 
Sandy
I see your point

I have, not one, but two, shoe shop Machines
from a Dexter shoe factory that went out back along..
and I've had them for over two years now, they are
and all but set up, not in use.
I'm just not interested enough yet to use them.
being done by hand seems (at least here) to command better money
the customers choice or what I want to offer it seems.
I'm sure you can under stand this,
my point of view.
I got $125.00 for that job shipping included,
if I done it by machine $35.00 bucks tops...
if I get way to many customers to keep up with
at that time I may have to be forced to use the Machines.
but to be honest I only got them to do finer panels.
and I'm still not using them to date..
so it's 6 of one and a half doz of the other.
when you can do it either way...
if I can get almost 4 times the money for one rather than doing four
in less time that seems better money wise, at least.
just my opinion and what's working for me at the moment:)
 
Dan, my friend---- You may not believe this but you are not getting high dollar because you stitch by hand--You are gettig high dollar because of the value of your name and the quality of your work, both of which are impeccable. You did not arrive yesterday in this trade and your skills are becoming widely known and appreciated. You have earned every damn cent you get----you paid your dues! Sandy
 
Somehow I seem to find that the most vocal detractors of such an instrument are those that do not have one.
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All right Dad now be nice! No I don't have one and have never been against those who do - The reason I don't have a machine though is that the work I do - historical stuff - demands the use of linen thread (there are those who make it with modern thread and machines but it ain't "right" and my clientele wants it "right"). The only machines that sew linen are needle and awl stitchers and frankly the price of $4,000.00 plus is too much to bear considering the amount of work I produce these days where a stitcher would be right. Just about everything pre 1870 would have been handsewn - and much after - and any of the frontier sheaths I do are handsewn. (on the other hand by the mid-1870's quite a bit of the buckskin clothing worn by whites was sewn by Indians using braintan hides and a sewing machine)

have heard all the discussions involving the neatness of the hand stitch, the strength of same, lack of machine marks on stitch line from the feed dogs and all the associated chit chat used to convince others that machine stitching is inferior. If machine stitching is properly done by a competent operator using a good machine, I would defy the average person to tell the difference in the type of stitch-- hand or machine. A thread with a 30 pound breaking strength does not increase in strength because it is being pulled tight by human muscles instead of machine tension
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AGREED! Bad stitching is bad stitching - whether machine or hand, yet again the linen vs poly/nylon situatian crops up at least for me. The only real "advantage" in quality (and a fairly minor one in my experience)that hand sewing has over machine sewing is that you have two independent threads with handsewing and in theory this makes it better than machine sewing since the machine sewn thread when/if broken can act like a zipper and loosen along the entire seam. I say fairly minor because in beaucoup years of doing repairs on leather of all kinds, holsters, sheaths, saddles, you name it, very seldom did this zipper occur and there were lots of times I wished it had! - I have pulled literally miles of stitching to cleanup a seam before restitching - and many times it was one bloody stitch at a time!!!!
Good machine sewing is not as easy as it might seem to the neophyte, in fact it can be more difficult to get a GOOD seam then doing it by hand, and this is something that the newbies should realize - machine sewing is not a panacea - like any craft it takes it's own set of skills and lots of practice. Once learned it will speed up your work but it quality should ALWAYS come first. Shoddy workman ship no matter how done should never be acceptable.

I doubt that one customer in fifty could tell the difference or even care which type of stitching was involved.
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True but it's that customer that I want! :D

Now as Sandy so succinctly put it, in general for the beginning or journeyman leather crafter (note not just sheath making - specializing in just sheaths probably won't keep a roof over your head or food in your belly ;) ) a good sewing machine can be a boon to one's business. It will allow you to produce your goods faster at a more reasonable rate and for the beginner/journeyman that can mean the differnce in paying the bills. On the other hand there is a market - albeit a small yet lucrative one - for those who handsew rather than machine sew.
On the other hand I can think of no greater workers of leather - and IMO leather crafts greatest ambassadors - in all shapes and form than Al and Ann Stohlman and they sewed everything by hand. And they were prodigious producers - their output was simply amazing!

And with all this said just how many of you offer a matching belt to go along with your sheaths? In my experience offering a good quality belt can really add to your income and they are really quite easy to build.
 
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