The MAP issue IMO

Myker

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First, yes I'm a major fan of Benchmade.

I too was bummed about the enforcement of MAP price, always thought Benchmade got plenty of money from sales. But after walking into three brick and mortar shops around town, all three shop owners/ managers have said the hike is to help the little guy, BM doesn't get a extra dime.

This actually seems like a good thing to me now, it's not really fair imo that certain online sellers can post ridiculous prices compared to the competition.

Do I want the prices to come back down, certainly. Do I respect Benchmades decision, absolutly.
 
yep, seems like now that the dust has settled we are seeing reality. Every store that carries BM that I have spoken with said the same thing, now they can sell their stock with out folks coming in to play with their blades and then leaving to order online.
 
My local dealer still can't compete with the online guys from a variety standpoint, so it's not exactly even.
 
My local dealer still can't compete with the online guys from a variety standpoint, so it's not exactly even.

It seems to me that this would only be an issue if BM gives retailers a volume discount based on the number of knives they buy of one particular model. I doubt this happens but I don't know. In other words, why couldn't a local dealer keep at least 1 of each knife currently in production in stock? Then all the variety would be there.
 
... why couldn't a local dealer keep at least 1 of each knife currently in production in stock? Then all the variety would be there.

Two reasons:

1. The greater the quantity of knives purchased per order by your local dealer/reseller from Benchmade the less the overall cost is to them.

2. A dealer/reseller doesn't want to have just one of each model in stock, or on display because if you sold it a replacement would not be available until the next shipment from Benchmade. In the meantime you have nothing to display and you are upsetting or even losing customers who want their knife the day they come to your store.
 
The musical instrument industry has been operating on MAP-based pricing more and more too, and I think it benefits the "little guys" who otherwise couldn't compete with the huge chain retailers who buy in volume and thus get a price break on their orders. Once MAP spread to dealers selling on eBay, it really took hold and started to sink in with bargain hunters who hoped that they could buy brand new products for dirt cheap with ease. If a dealer wants to work something out with a customer to sell below MAP, well that's up to them.*

(*That's how it is with instrument sales. Not saying it is with Benchmade or other knife manufacturers.)
 
I think it may have been a bit wiser to announce a change (as many companies do over their vast social networks) regarding a large shift in the MAAP enforcement policy. It seems that was far too much to ask, and almost gave it sort of a strange "chicken" type of move by not addressing it. Other than saying "Our prices have not gone up". We kind of knew that, but our prices did (the consumer). It's noble wanting to help "the little guy" but the little guy could have helped themselves by potentially offering some sort of sale or incentive to buy specific products. Many vendors don't know their products.

I've seen some of the worst attempts to earn sales at local brick and mortar stores, gun shops in particular which carry more Benchmade than others. It seems to me that the online knife stores knew exactly how to move products. They weren't exactly giving them away by any means either. I've seen the exact same knives at 2 gun stores in particular for the last 3 years.

I don't mind paying more for stuff, but I'm not really thrilled about paying more for the same stuff that was available at a specific price point for so long. The same models seem to get rebooted by changing the handle material, blade swapping from one knife into another handle, etc. Some folks are all over it, and others not so much. The 940-1 is a winner, the 810-1401 is a winner, the 551-1401 is a winner, but some of the new models just aren't speaking to many folks. I'll continue to buy stuff, the occasional LE or -1401 style version.
 
Supporting the local dealer is respectable and all, but the truth is when BM knives all of a sudden cost $50 to $80 more per knife, neither the local dealer or the online dealer is going to get the sale.

It's a lose lose situation. I doubt this MAAP price enforcement will last more then a year, BM will see their sales decrease exponentially and revert their policy in short order, mark my word.

When good businesses institute bad policies and fail to adapt, they go out of business. BM is fighting a losing battle in this information age with internet pricing wars & online competition.

Consumers naturally go where the price is the lowest and have realistic expectations of manufactures' cost, dealer mark ups, and acceptable retail pricing. BM, it's time for you to wake up and smell the coffee, look at how the internet and information have affected the traditional business of car dealerships. You can't win this fight by enforcing strict pricing guidelines, this will only make you uncompetitive.
 
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Noone denies that this helps brick and mortar only stores. The many folks who voiced their disappointment over the artificial price increase in the various threads all acknowledged that from the beginning. Also, BM not making a cent more was widely known from the start in these discussions. These werent points of contention.

As far as helping the little guy, it sure hasnt helped this little guy (customers are the littler little guys) and I havent purchased a BM new ever since. Ive since purchased an MPR, and a Shotshow Grip from the secondary market and at good prices but as a whole, even secondary market prices are changing. Good for sellers but gone are the days of LNIB $80 707's, $90 710's and $45 Grips from the exchange.
 
For me it's to the point where I am taking a long hard look at customs. For the cost of 3 BMs I can order a knife built to my specs. I'm not exactly saying I will anytime soon. It took me about 2 months to get my first 2 BMs. before MAP. But now, as I save my money for purchases, I can't help but think things like "If I just hold off a little longer I can get a custom _____ instead". I still want certain knives like an Infidel, Rift, Volli and I'm craving a Sequel. The question I find that I'm asking myself is - is 3>1? where before it was more like a five to one difference.
 
Since Benchmade started enforcing MAP pricing I have only bought the Contego 810-1401 because it would've cost that much before or after MAP enforcement anyway. I plan on buying just two more this year: 940-1 and 484 since they have premium steel and handles (even though I think they'll be overpriced). I did stock up on a bunch of Benchmade folders in late November while the prices were way below MAP at two online dealers. I'm not rewarding, what I consider to be, bad practices any more than I can help it.
 
...why couldn't a local dealer keep at least 1 of each knife currently in production in stock? Then all the variety would be there.

Because most small local stores don't have the working capital to keep that much stock on hand. As a result, they would be forced to take out a short term loan to cover their operating expenses. This is obviously not good for them, so they resort to telling customers "I can order it for you" - which I can easily do myself while sitting at my desk.
 
Because most small local stores don't have the working capital to keep that much stock on hand.

That makes sense, but the MAP doesn't seem to help this at all. Some people are going to support their local stores and some people will not, even when the price is the same. Since knives are probably not a huge portion of overall sales for the local stores that sell knives (mainly gun / camping / military surplus stores) I can't imagine the increased profit margin selling Benchmade knives at MAP would effect their bottom line all that much.

I just recently started getting into knives and Benchmades in particular, so I don't have any experience buying in the the pre-MAP days. However, in general I believe the more free a market the better it is for consumers. As others have stated in this thread, when BM knives cost the consumer more then the overall number of knife sales will go down. So I would imagine that enforcing a MAP will reduce Benchmade's sales numbers and either be net negative or neutral for the local stores. Can't see an upside for anyone on this one.

With or without enforcing MAP prices, local stores already have to compete with online retailers for virtually everything they sell and if they want to win that battle they have to excel at customer service.
 
It's 2014. If you own a store of any kind you should also sell from a website. Period.

Exactly.

Online dealers are being penalized for having a better business model. They learn their territory, their stock, their customer needs. They put their money into shelves and shelves of product. Then they are told they aren't allowed to out-compete shopkeepers who put their money into a small storefront.

Online dealers have overhead too! They need to own or rent a building big enough to stock serious quantities of those knives we want. They have electric bills and taxes to pay even though they might not have a sales counter selling to you in person. They have employees to pay. They run computer systems and shipping departments.

Benchmade is now in the social responsibility business, propping up small dealers who don't sell their knives as well as the more advanced online entrepreneurs.
 
Esav for the win, that is a great post. The shops that are local to me, (mostly gun shops) have websites that have outrageously overstocked items. It's not real and in relation to what is in the store. Being in IT for the last 15+ years I mentioned this to one store owner. i asked if he had actually seen and browsed through his website. He said he had not as he does not use the internet much, "that is what my assistant is for". I mentioned that I was lost in seconds, so many catagories, and about 95% of what is on the site is not actually in stock or even available, some items discontinued. That creates problems all over. They don't even know what kind of knives they carry, or what the steel is, who mades them, what their CoO is, nothing. What a shame.
 
Exactly.

Online dealers are being penalized for having a better business model. They learn their territory, their stock, their customer needs. They put their money into shelves and shelves of product. Then they are told they aren't allowed to out-compete shopkeepers who put their money into a small storefront.

Online dealers have overhead too! They need to own or rent a building big enough to stock serious quantities of those knives we want. They have electric bills and taxes to pay even though they might not have a sales counter selling to you in person. They have employees to pay. They run computer systems and shipping departments.

Benchmade is now in the social responsibility business, propping up small dealers who don't sell their knives as well as the more advanced online entrepreneurs.

This is all true. It's a shame dealers with a better and modern business model are the ones getting penalized. I've never been to KW in LA, but would like to visit one day. From what I understand, they have a fairly large warehouse and employ probably as many people as my local shop, and KW is selling basically nothing but knives! No guns, no ammo, no fishing gear to help with overhead. There's plenty of overhead involved I'm certain at KW with utilities, taxes, wages, insurance, etc.

My local shop is one of the more well known outdoors shops in the state, and they have basically every brand of knife you can think of with multiple iterations of each one, and claim to have over 5000 knives on display. But they have NO online presence regarding an online shop and probably never will whether because of the Fudd mentality there or simply because they want to keep it local. Many Spydercos and BM's you can't find online, you can always find at this place, such as when PM2s were scarce, and Native5's. They have many hard to find LE and Gold Class BM's and basically every iteration of CRK imaginable. This shop has a reputation of being overpriced on many items by some of us plebeians, but they still sell gobs and gobs of expensive guns and vastly overpriced ammo and expensive rods, reels, and bows and arrows. They also have tons of expensive clothes, boots, sunglasses, very high quality gun safes, giant shooting houses, treestands, Yeti coolers, you name it...anything to do with the outdoors, they've got it. These guys have no problem combating their overhead. BUT look at their prices on knives pre-tax: Sage 1 - $150, Sage 2 - $200, Ti Military - $300, Delica - $80, BM 940 before MAP enforcement - $165, BM 710 before MAP enforcement - $145...and these prices aren't an exaggeration...I visit and window shop a good bit. The shop also happens to be located in the most affluent part of the state with the highest income per capita so I guess part of their business model is "We know you've got the cash and don't know any better, so buy this!" Though rich and poor come from all over to visit. If they sold nothing but knives and knife accessories, I'd understand and feel more ok with their pricing better.

My point is that they have a selection of knives similar to what KW offers, and have no online shop, but unlike KW who sells strictly knives with reasonably similar overhead, the local shop sells tons of varied very, very expensive items to help with these costs...why make the knives so damn expensive? And it's probably a reason why hard to find models can be found there. KW and all the other dealers sell nothing but knives, albeit many, many knives, but why should they be penalized because Joe Dirt's Guns only wants to carry 2 models of Griptilians and can't ever sell them? Joe Dirt is covering his costs elsewhere in other items so I don't think the knives are going to cause him to go out of business. It's gotta be coming from cutlery only stores like St. Nick's that have no online presence.
 
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One thing you forget Esav. To sell Benchmade, it doesn't matter if most business is online, a dealer MUST have a storefront. So the overhead is equal if not more for the online guys because they need IT. Also prices befor MAP were already ridiculous here in Mass . I checked a (fairly) local store and they wanted $60 for a freaking Tenacious! The closest Bass PS had only 4 BM models, and they wanted over $200 for a 940. The selection here is sadly limited, and to top it off, extremely overpriced. I didn't WANT to shop online, I was FORCED to. I will continue to do so because even after MAP enforcement the online prices are still cheaper.
 
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