The Martial Hawk

M

Myers

Joined
Jan 3, 2000
Messages
103
Greetings!

This looks like an excellent forum! Brian C just invited me over. I practice the "American Heritage Fighting Arts." This includes bare knuckle boxing/pugilism, bowie knife, tomahawk, bayonet, military saber, and walking stick/singlestick. I have a website that is mostly pugilism right now, with a bowie section about to go up. There are a few hawk video clips to serve as a "teaser" until we can get around to working on that section. Its at:

http://keith.martialartsman.com

How many of you here train with the tomahawk as a martial art? What kind of methods do you use?

Keith P. Myers
 
I'm glad you made it, Keith, and I hope it becomes a regular stop for you. I first found your Web site through the listing of tomahawk resources that William Callahan (callahwj) originally posted in the Practical Tactical Forum. As I said to you via e-mail, there doesn't appear to be much information currently available concerning hawk combatives. Hopefully, the heightened general interest in hawks will help to change this as more people become aware of their CQB effectiveness.

As to training with a tomahawk, I go through a series of flow drills both including & without a knife -- angles of attack, blocks, hooks, etc. It's not based on any formal method but is rather a compilation of techniques that I have found combined with some I already knew. It may not be the most effective overall style but, in lieu of something prescribed, it does give me practice manipulating a hawk. Besides, it gives my neighbors something new to look at -- they were getting bored of watching me dance around with a khukuri. :cool:
 
I've done hatchet and knife applying FMA concepts. Since there aren't a lot of trainers, my teacher/partner used a rubber mallet and I kept the sheath on my axe. My teacher did use the same block Mr. LaGana does in the picture on the website, rarely had the chance to use it though, preferring chopping/stabbing on the move.

I found that sometimes hooking a hawk with another hawk can be a sticky situation. There were times that my opponents knife worked more effectively than the hawk at close range and an a gunting type of arm break can occur. For me, I prefer the knife in a forward grip and in the off hand.
 
Hey Smoke!

I agree with the knife in forward grip in off-hand approach. Also agree that the hooking action of the hawk can be as much of a liability as an asset. I have somewhat of a solution for that, which I will post as a separate thread later. Since we don't have any historic sources with instruction on how the hawk was used in the past, we have to start somewhere and figure things out on our own. The FMA has good concepts that can apply to the hawk and is a good place to start. Personally, most of what I do with the hawk is based on the bowie methods I have learned, which in turn are based on western swordsmanship. But just using the natural attributes of the weapon in a common sense fashion goes a long way, and I'm sure the majority of what we are doing with the hawk is very similar.

Keith
 
Surely there are more than 3 of us here that actually train with our tomahawks! You guys don't let all those wonderful pieces of American Heritage just hang on the wall begging to be used...do you? :-)

If so, then let me rephrase the original question in this thread. How many of you WOULD LIKE to know how to wield a tomahawk in a fighting situation?

Keith
 
I would love to know how to wield my hawk in a highly trained manner. (I have one of the ATC Vietnam hawks) Having never studied any escrima or kali, all I know to do is the figure eight that I read about. I'd aim for the head/neck area and keep it as simple as possible. I guess I'd try to use the figure eight in case I missed, for follow-up. I think the most important thing in any stand-up situation is foot work and timing the entry. I would like to learn kali just for the foot work alone. I am waiting for Chris Caracci to come out with perhaps a video on using this hawk. I also plan to obtain one of Two Hawks' war hawks, as well as an ATC Next Generation Ranger Spike.
 
Ray Terry of the Eskrima Digest has some hawk-like pieces in his collection of Filipino weapons and recently asked for input on FMA hawk/axe techniques. I once showed a couple hawks to Guro Dan Inosanto and asked him about application of FMA techniques. He only had a minute or two to respond owing to the press of other students, but he mentioned one unusual approach. He said that he had seen some older Filipino martial artists hold the hawk handle by the head end, with the blade protruding forward under their hand. They would use the handle for striking like an eskrima stick, with the blade reserved for followup slashes/punches. Held in this manner, the weapon may be faster (or at least very maneuverable). Of course, you lose the tremendous cutting power that you get by gripping the handle in a normal fashion.

Guro Inosanto was not advocating this type of grip, merely passing on a bit of interesting information.
 
I've played with this grip a bit as well, and it has its place. I think it would come into play in a circumstance when you have taken a double grip on the hawk for a reinforced block of some sort, and then released the grip with your right hand...leaving your left hand holding the hawk below the head with the handle protruding forward. I remember hearing a rumor awhile back that Guro Inosanto or someone close to him had a hand in the fight choreography for "Last of the Mohicans." Has anyone else heard that?

Keith
 
I study Japanese kobudo weapons work. I have just acquired a HI bancharo, and plan to adapt knife and sword movements to it.
 
Hi Spectre!

I've never studied Kobudo myself, but it seems to me that Kama and Nunchaku methods would be more applicable to the tomahawk. What do you think?

Keith
 
If you want to wave hawks around try to use some common sense. Get a rubber mallet or a leather head mallet. like the rich folks use on wire wheel knock off hubs. When you slip and hit yourself or someone else and sooner then later you will slip,it may hurt but but a bruse is better then a severed limb or artery. Over the years I have had accidents with all kinds of weapons and I am very carefull. I recently dropped a hawk and cut both my leg and my foot. I didnt plan on it and I was not careless but I still bled a lot.
My preferred method of haw fighting is that of the Viking. Close with your adversary screaming at the top of your lungs and swinging the hawk. My preferred method of self defense is the double action stainless steelWalther PPK with silver saber.hollow points. This is carried with afull mag and a loaded chamber . This saves me the expenses of throat losenges.
 
The idea of the martial hawk is real interesting in that hawk construction is so varied. From the Greco 8" Ax and Szabo Manhattaxe to the old style double beard and spiked models. Let's not forget the shovel and entrenching tool.

I've been fortunate to play with and against an old Persian war axe, with a 4' shaft. The heft and use were a great workout to check your body alignment. A point forward guard as in sword fighting had some real strength, a heavy cutting weapon that is part shield, battering ram, and war hammer. Add a spike on top and you have a knife or spear.

Against the axe, the forward guard position was a bear to enter against in free flow. I did manage to chip a 1/2" off the top part of the blade though my training staff was severly bent and cut.
 
Berk:
I agree with you 100% on the issue of safety. On my website I show how to make a training hawk with a dense foam head.
http://keith.martialartsman.com under "trainers."

Smoke:
Tis true....the methods done with the hawk are actually appropriate for a whole class of weapons. Jim Keating makes this point on his video as well.


Keith
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top