The 'Mid-Serrated' blade and Edge area usage poll

S

Subwoofer_CPF

Joined
Oct 2, 2014
Messages
224
After much study of edge usage and how serrations interact with various tasks, I have formulated a concept for part-serrated knife blades – the Mid-Serrated blade.

This is one of my protoype blades, a Boker Trance 42 for EDCing.
Trance-42-mid-blade-only-800-IMG_20160320_193134.jpg


Talking to many of those in the knife industry while at IWA 2016 it seems that this is not something any manufacturer has thought to try and it was accepted as an interesting concept.

This thread is not to discuss the Pros/Cons of serrations, and I appreciate their extra cutting power, and would like the facility to use serrations for certain cutting tasks, but I don’t think the compromise has to be so obvious. It occurred to me that there wasn’t really anything preventing the serrations from being in the middle of the cutting edge where they would have less impact on my general use of a blade.

Of course this is based on my own use of different areas of the blade. For simplicity I've used three main areas of the blade, the heel, belly and tip. For each I have worked through all the tasks I regularly carry out and been able to put an estimate of how much use each area gets and the type of cuts I make when I prefer a plain edge. These are shown below.

Edge-use-percentage-840.jpg


So the purpose of this thread is to ask everyone for their approximate percentages of use for the heel, belly and tip portions of the blade and how well you think the 'mid-serrated' blade would work for you?

Please reply using:
Heel- XX%
Belly/Middle- XX%
Tip- XX%

If you have a couple of specific usage scenarios where these percentages will be very different, please post moe than one set of figures with a quick description of the tasks.

I have a more in depth write up here:
The Mid-Serrated Blade

The two testing prototypes a fixed blade and folder.
Both-mid-800-IMG_20160321_084945.jpg


Initial results are extremely favourable. These mid-serrations almost disappear in use as they just don’t get in the way. However when I need to cut rope or other fibrous material, they power their way through even though being in the middle of the blade limits the pressure you can apply.

Remember that this is not to suggest all part-serrated blades should have mid-serrations, but to consider it as another option when choosing whether to go for part/fully-serrated or plain edge.
 
Last edited:
I like the idea of it a lot more than a typical partial serration. Generally I prefer either a full serration or full plain edge because the typical positioning of the serrations does so little for me. I think that both this and tip serrations (which are particularly good at shielding the interior edges from damage when cutting against damaging backing surfaces) are more useful concepts than having the partial at the base.
 
I know victorinox has partially serrated blades with the serrations near the tip instead of the heel.

Your idea is pretty cool :thumbup:
 
I like it. I have long wished for a design like it. I had a folder with the serrations on the front third of the knife and loved it. Your usage % is on the money imo.
Oh I've also been enjoying your reviews. Very thorough. Great job.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
I like the idea of it a lot more than a typical partial serration. Generally I prefer either a full serration or full plain edge because the typical positioning of the serrations does so little for me. I think that both this and tip serrations (which are particularly good at shielding the interior edges from damage when cutting against damaging backing surfaces) are more useful concepts than having the partial at the base.
Click to expand...

This. I still don't think it would sway me towards partially serrated blades, but it makes a lot more sense to me than the standard pattern and leaves you a nice, plain edge section at the heel for powering through push cuts.
 
Very interesting idea. I'd have to try one to see if I liked it. I'm one of those weirdos who doesn't mind a combo edge on a hard use knife. The idea being, of course, that even if the edge gets dull, I can basically saw my way through stuff if need be.

I cut a lot of rope at work, so the traditional serrated part toward the heel works well mechanically for me. About the finest thing I need to cut is a carpenter's pencil, so either choking up on the blade or just roughing the tip sharp with the serration is fine.

I have used the Victorinox models with the serrated part toward the tip, and I think it is generally a good idea for some applications. I can appreciate the fine edge closer to the heel for detail work. However, while it's perfect for my needs, the needs are niche. I usually use my large Vic with that configuration as my food prep knife while camping. The fine edge is great for marshmallow/hotdog sticks. The generous serrated edge is basically used as a bread knife.

A mid-serration, for me, would work better with a more generous amount of serration in the middle than the 45/10/45 mode at the top. I don't require a large area of fine edge to do detail work at the heel. However, I would like more than just the tip plain edged as I poke a lot of holes. My guess is that a 20/35/45 would work best for me.

While they are not "perfect" I do see the merits of flat serrations like found on the Gerber Mkii. It allows you to sort of ignore the serrations when sharpening by taking the stone right over them and do a detail touch up later. While they are not the best cutters, I might prefer something more along those lines that I could bump over with a stone then give a quick strop in the field. I could touch up the individual teeth back home. Just a thought.

I'm interested to see where this goes:)
 
Steely_Gunz said:
I cut a lot of rope at work, so the traditional serrated part toward the heel works well mechanically for me. About the finest thing I need to cut is a carpenter's pencil, so either choking up on the blade or just roughing the tip sharp with the serration is fine.

A mid-serration, for me, would work better with a more generous amount of serration in the middle than the 45/10/45 mode at the top. I don't require a large area of fine edge to do detail work at the heel. However, I would like more than just the tip plain edged as I poke a lot of holes. My guess is that a 20/35/45 would work best for me.

While they are not "perfect" I do see the merits of flat serrations like found on the Gerber Mkii. It allows you to sort of ignore the serrations when sharpening by taking the stone right over them and do a detail touch up later. While they are not the best cutters, I might prefer something more along those lines that I could bump over with a stone then give a quick strop in the field. I could touch up the individual teeth back home. Just a thought.
Click to expand...

Your comment about rope cutting was the main response from the manufacturers I discussed this with. I don't dispute this being ideal for some users, and some blades.

The 45/10/45 is not how much space is used for the serrations but is the amount of use each section of edge gets for my uses. I only use the belly/mid-section around 10% of the time with most of my work being with the tip or heel section.

For the sake of this initial concept in progress I would consider the edge divided into three equally with the middle third serrated. The details of this can be tweaked, but for now that is how I would go with the amount and position of the serrations.

The serrations I chose are Chris Reeve Kubuli serrations. If you check my more in depth write up link in the first post you will see why.
 
Depend what this knife is for my edc folder would prob be just me though
Heel 20 some times carving and like tasks
Belly 40 food prep and slicing
Tip 40 cutting things open

For my bush crafty fixed blade knives
Heel60 (feather stick) batoning
Belly35 (use my knife in kitchen to so slicing ). Batoning
Tip5 I reall don't ever use The tip cept when making a hole in wood)


it wouldnt really work for me but I'd prefer it to heel serrations
 
Last edited:
Very interesting idea. It would help to get specific about the pros and cons and how you would test the goals of the design.

Serrations in the middle can be less awkward to use than on either end.
 
I like it. What part of the blade gets used depends a lot on both tasks (wood, processing game, etc.) and how much blade you actually have to work with.

For a fixed blade, I think a section of serrated spine might be more useful overall.

I take it that sharpening isn't a real issue because the serrations are simply recessed into the existing edge line?
 
I'm a serrations fan. They can make short work of tough materials. I like serrations for the work they can do but, honestly, the damn things are butt ugly. Having them stuck in the middle of a blade draws more attention to them than I'm willing to accept. Keep them tucked back close to the tang and less obtrusive.
 
RX-79G said:
I like it. What part of the blade gets used depends a lot on both tasks (wood, processing game, etc.) and how much blade you actually have to work with.

For a fixed blade, I think a section of serrated spine might be more useful overall.

I take it that sharpening isn't a real issue because the serrations are simply recessed into the existing edge line?
Click to expand...

After using many double-edged and saw-back knives, I find they tend to be much harder on the sheath especially when used as a tool that gets taken in and out of the sheath a lot (I don't like leaving knives lying around). With a blunt spine you can run this against the sheath without cutting it and keeping the edge clear of everything. I also prefer a fully plain spine for batoning so it can be struck centrally to start the split before moving to the tip to complete it.

Regarding the Kubuli serrations I chose for these prototypes, there is more detail in the write up here:
The Mid-Serrated Blade

Essentially these type of serrations can be sharpened 'normally' just like a plain edge.
 
Super awesome idea and I tell you why.

Serrations towards the handle gets a rope stuck sometimes instead of cutting it. It's because that's the area where I start cutting and have to overcome the most resistance because of the serrations. If the serrations however are in the middle my cut will be already in motion and the speed will prevent the middle serrations from stopping the cut in its tracks like they could have done at the beginning.
Why not at the tip then? Wouldn't that be even better? Nope. There is too much leverage and overcoming this and on top of this the resistance of the serrations there also doesn't feel optimal.
Thus the middle rulz!
 
another tip serrated knife is the tops tactical steak knife, and interesting concept and one I've nearly jumped on before.

Personally I hate serrations, hate, hate, hate. BUT I work with rope, not just live loads, but life-line loads. so when a rope needs to be cut it can be very serious. One of the reasons I've avoided semi-serrated knives is that I have a theory that your rescue knife is the one you use most. So while a semi-serrated knife would be the best for ropes, since they don't work for me in any other fashion, they are out of the running. But a knife with a thin slicey edge, something that works well for a range of tasks, and has a serrated center, that might work very well. Serrations are great for some things, include a lot of food-prep, and even if they don't help, they don't hurt either.

Most of the knives I use right now don't have a lot of belly, but it would be interesting to see how even a mostly straight edge preformed on rope with only a few serrations 3/4 of the way down the blade, and what shape was best, flat toothed like tops does, CRKT hooked serrations, or fine serrations like Vic does.
 
I've been messing with this idea for a couple years now-it's a very powerful cutter and leaves the most-used utility portions of the blade clean. Even worked ok for some bushcraft stuff, though it wouldn't be my first choice.
 
I think this idea is worth pursuing. I haven't read about the Kubuli serrations yet, but they appeal to my sense of symmetry.

When slicing with a sawing motion, the blade is stationary at both ends of each stroke, and moving the most at mid-stroke. This fact alone offers a compelling argument for locating the serrations at midway along the edge.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top