The mystery of patina....

M

MacTech

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Jan 7, 2006
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I just recently got into Classic knives, after years of lusting after one "modern" folder after another, most of them Spyderco and Buck, with the occasional Kershaw

I always kept these knives Scary Sharp (still do) but many times, when it came time to actually *use* them, I fell back on either my multitool blades (Vic SwissTool and Leatherman Surge) or whatever SAK was closest to hand (typically the Soldier or CyberTool 34)

I was always a little hesitant to actually *use* my modern locking folders, mainly because the supersteels I coveted so much (S30V/VG-10/H1) were actually annoying to sharpen, H1 was the easiest to get to an Atom-Splitting edge, closely followed by VG-10, S30V was a bear if I let it get "dull" (not popping hairs is dull to me), but once sharpened back up to Atom-Splitting, it held for a good long time

So here I was with an assortment of supersteels, vaunted for their edgeholding, yet I didn't want to use them and 'dull' them

When I picked up my yeller CV Case Trapper, I initially had the same mindset, didn't want to get it "dirty" or lose the highly polished gleam of the blades, but something changed, I actually started to *use* it, and enjoy using it, in a way my modern lockers couldn't, the blades started taking on a patina, gaining an ever-darkening rainbow of iridescent blues, magentas, oranges, and purples, it looked quite nice

I also noticed that the patina reacted differently to what was being cut, the colors and patterns were transient, impermanent, and constantly in flux, shifting and moving every time the blade was used.....

cut a harder surface, like a small twig or branch, and the patina takes on a pattern of stripes and striations, a fresh canvas for more and different patina...

McIntosh apples gave the blade very attractive multi-toned hues, the aforementioned iridescent blues, magentas, and oranges
Tomatoes darken the patina and shift it a little more to the reddish scale
Red Delicious apples dulled the patina to a flat, uniform gray, quite dissapointing
Lemons simply darkened whatever colors were there, adding a mottling to the shifting patterns
Oranges, coincidentally enough, changed the overall hue of the patina to a much stronger orange colour (who'da thunk it ;) )
I have yet to see how pears or grapefruits affect the patina, I'm betting that grapefruits will show results similar to the other citrus fruits, pears, I have no idea, I also wonder how potatoes will affect the patina....

Once I discovered this "living canvas", the carbon-steel patina, a funny thing happened....

I started using my carbon-steel blades a lot more, and actually *enjoy* using them, unlike my moderns, I actually *want* to use my carbon blades, as not only is it fun to watch the patina change and shift over time, they're incredibly easy to resharpen, less than five strokes per side on the Sharpmaker white rods, and it's back to Atom-Splitting levels of sharpness

Heck, I've even tried to get my Buck 110 to get a patina as well, but stainless, yes, even high-carbon stainless, just doesn't seem to hold on to a permanent patina, it'll get a faint gray wash when cutting acidic foodstuffs, but the "patina" vanishes when the blade is rinsed and wiped clean

I have come to really appreciate and, yes, even love the patina of a good carbon blade, the various stainless steels seem to be very "meh" to me now
 
Great post!

I also look for the opportunity to add to the patina of my carbon bladed knives. I have three in 1095 and two in CV. Like today, I was out grilling some chicken breasts for some chicken fajitas for dinner. I carried my Queen canoe in 1095 as the wide main blade is great for slicing grilled meats. The heat, oil and juices from the meat keep adding more layers of patina to the 1095 blade. Very satisfying.

On a related note, I wonder if anyone has noticed differences in how CV takes on a patina versus 1095? From my observation it seems to take it on much easier and more evenly but it could be the difference in the polish of the blades that helps.
 
You've found the point that made me love patina... the varied colors, stripes, bands and splotches.. I do dearly Love a patina that forms in colors, and notr a simple grey.

One that is even better, is a damascus blade, one that has the etch that shows the pattern buffed out, so you have a smooth shiny blade.... Then let it form a patina, if your lucky, in colors. The patina acts as a pattern etch, and the play between color bands and steel pattern is fabulous.

My favorite patina formers are good med-rare rib steaks with a dab of A-1 sauce, and my favorite Gala apples. Great color makers.

G.
 
Funny this should get posted today.
I have been carrying my Chestnut Bone Sway Back CV in a little leather slip pouch and basically just admiring it from time to time until today. The wife and I got back from a trip to the grocery store for some last minute Easter supplies with some strawberries. She asked if I would cut some up for her, and I said sure. It dawned on me when reaching for a knife from the block that my sway back was in my pocket, and I should just get it over with. I had never cut strawberries with carbon steel so I wasn't sure what to expect.
If you ever want to start a patina honestly, but effectively, cut up a mess of strawberries. After cutting up a few dozen I rinsed it off, wiped the blade dry, and found the blade had taken on a fairly pronounced gray color with the darkest streaks. The streaks looked almost like pencil lines, and when held at the right angle the gray background had a cool iridescent shine to it.
While she ate some strawberries, I cut up an apple. The streaks are gone, but it's still pretty colorful.
Can't wait to see what's next!
 
I tried cutting a strawberry last night, and you're right, it definitely adds a nice iridescent rainbow of colors to the blade, it also put a good pattern on as well

I guess I look at patina like I look at the seasoning layer on my cast iron cookware, it gets better with use, the more you use it, the stronger/better the patina/seasoning layer gets

Using something that improves with use, rather than breaks down with use, gotta love it
 
Fer God's sake, stay away from mustard!

I tore open one of those plastic packs of mustard and spread it around on on a sandwich, and made the mstake of laying the knife down while I ate. Made a nasty brown splotchy type of patina. Had to cut up an apple to even things out.
 
Mustard contains vinegar, which is ~5% acetic acid. Acetic acid is one of the strongest organic acids, so it will attack steel much faster than other things.
 
So, I shouldn't be dipping my knives in non-diluted Kodak Indicator Stop Bath then? (Glacial Acetic Acid) ;)
 
MacTech said:
So, I shouldn't be dipping my knives in non-diluted Kodak Indicator Stop Bath then? (Glacial Acetic Acid) ;)
Click to expand...

Only for ham sandwiches. ;)

But seriously, I liked reading about your experiences with your carbon blades. I like them a lot as well. :thumbup:

Mike
 
It's always fun watching a patina form and change. For a real weird one, try cutting some fresh red maple saplings. It leaves dark purple in its wake, and it's quite striking.
 
I wrote how I do not like patina. But I used one of my cv knives and it started. I figured if it is going to happen well then lets do it. So I took my cv knives and put them in vinager.And I left the patina on. I was hoping it would grow on me. Well on my beloved Canoe, I hated it. So I got out the metal polish and went to work. It is much better now. And I am starting to work on my other cv knives. On some knives it looks ok. Especially yellow handle knives. Well I got to go and polish some more knives to get rid of as much of the patina as I can. Call me weird, that is OK.

Bill
 
Yesterday the wife and I took the kids for a hike in the woods and built a fire and cooked up some sausages, so my Old Timer Middleman Jack served duty cutting and sharpening three sausage-cooking sticks (at their base, about as thick as the butt end of a pool cue), cutting up sausages, and spreading brown mustard on bread for the adults.

Then, today, on another hike, my wife bummed my knife to cut up an apple for the kids.

You're right, MacTech, watching that patina in action is a blast for knife knuts like us. And admiring the edge a good carbon steel blade will take - and maintain - is a good time as well. BTW, guys, happy Easter!
 
Buck Fan, I felt the same way when I forced a patina on my Opinel with vinegar a while ago, a boring, mundane gray, it looked like crap, but it did protect the blade from corrosion so I let it stay

I decided to try letting a patina form naturally on my Yeller CV Case Trapper and my Boker Whittler, and there's a definite difference, a natural patina forms slowly and in layers, if you cut up acidic fruits, you'll get an iridescent sheen on the blade when the light hits it at the right angle, dead on it looks flat gray and boring, but tilt the blade and it comes to life in Technicolor, it looks similar to the rainbow effect you get from an oil slick on a driveway
 
I find mangoes give really interesting patinas. So do kiwis and pears. Just about any fruit does a great job. I'm also one that loves to watch the patina grow in layers.
 
I've patina'ed a bunch of knives using apple cider vinegar.
Works pretty good.
Buck Fan i like patina but i understand what you are saying.
I have a new Case Amber Bone CV stockman that i kinda want to keep all shiney, lol!
 
tholiver said:
I have a new Case Amber Bone CV stockman that i kinda want to keep all shiney, lol!
Click to expand...

Me too, I got the Case in CV because of all the great threads about the steel and the eventual patina, but it looks so nice all shiny :)
 
I forget to mention one other useful thing about the patina and that is the visual assistance in sharpening a blade.

When I do need to sharpen up a blade with a nice patina on it, I can easily see if I am removing the proper amount of metal evenly on both sides because once removed I can see the contrast against the darker metal. A newly sharpened (and possibly polished edge) just looks darn good against a darkened blade, too.
 
when you, re-polish a blade with patina on it. have you noticed that the blades surface has eroded a little. the surface is not as smooth as it once was, especially if it was used to cut fruit. ( apples etc.) food for thought. i feel if you use it, keep the patina on. that will protect it from rust.
 
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