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- May 4, 2015
- Messages
- 947
I stumbled upon the Grayman Satu ti-ti via a thread I posted about which full ti folder was the biggest and baddest. I had never heard of it up until that point. The picture made it look like every other regular sized full ti folder out there. I decided to go ahead and look up the specs, just out of curiosity... 4.15 inch, .195" thick, 1.5" wide cpm20cv blade, sitting on two 3/16 thick slabs of 6AL4V titanium with an overall length of 9 7/8"... for $390. I read it over it again... $390? WHAT!? That's a steal! I immediately began looking into the history of the knife and reading old reviews. Most of what was out there was about the version with the original s30v blade. Despite most of the reviews being about the older version, they were positive. The issues that plagued the original design had been dealt with. And they had upgraded the blade steel. The knife was priced so much lower than other similarly built folders, I just couldn't ignore it. I had to find out what this monster was all about.
***BEFORE YOU READ MY REVIEW***
The purpose of this review is to break down the full ti Grayman Satu, and to show whether or not its a good alternative to its direct, more expensive competition. Basically, any full ti folders with similar or equal blade length, blade thickness, handle thickness, and overall length. I am not a professional knife user or designer, nor am I a metallurgist. This review is not based on hard use. Its based on close examination of the overall construction and minor cutting tasks. So, now that everyone has a general idea of where Im going with this, lets begin!
*SCORING*0-10, TOTAL OF 50
Fit and finish
Materials
Blade shape
Ergonomics and carry
Durability (not based on actual use)
-EXTRA-
Changes I would recommend
*******************************************************************************************************************************************************************
-FIT AND FINISH- SCORE-10
This is a SERIOUS folding knife. The attention to detail is nothing short of excellent. All the lines meet up perfectly. Both the blade and handle are heavily stonewashed in a way very similar to the current Hinderer knives. No sharp edges to speak of on the handles or spine, and the centering is dead perfect. I needed to break it in a little, but after a hundred or so deployments, the knife became smooth as butter while maintaining it's centering and lock up %. Zero blade play, which is a huge relief. I had read that they addressed the old issues with the pivot bushing being a little too large, causing minor blade play. Lock up sits at 40%, which I think is perfect for a knife this big. The edge on this NEW version of the Satu is now a very satisfying smooth edge, which is awesome. The original design had a toothy edge, which apparently didn't go over well. While some may argue that the toothy edge has it's own advantages, I will always prefer a smooth edge on any folder.
-MATERIALS- SCORE-9
I don't think anyone can argue that 6AL4V is the preferred grade of titanium when constructing knife handles. No hits there. The blade is now made from cpm20cv, hardened to 59 hrc, instead of s30v in earlier models. I'll do my best to explain why I think this is a good choice, but not the best one. cpm20cv, as most of you know, is basically the equivalent to M390. This steel is SUPER corrosion resistant, and holds an edge for an extremely long time. Both good things. Unfortunately, in the past, this steel has shown that it can be brittle. I have experienced this with two other folders. One in 20cv and one in M390. Both chipped when they were used a little harder than intended, which was my own fault. This is not normally a problem in a smaller edc knife when you're just going to cut paper or cardboard etc. In the case of the Satu, you'll most likely be using it harder. I think the steel will perform just fine, but it's reasonable to expect some chipping if you use this knife the way it was intended to be used. So, is cpm20cv the best choice for this knife? I don't think so. In this price range, I honestly would have rather seen good ol' s35vn. Some of you will disagree, and that's fine. These are just my personal preferences. The only other thing I dont like is the g10 backspacer. Im sure the g10 is sufficient, but titanium would have felt more complete. Seems out of place to me. I cant really count off a full point for each issue because the choices they made are still plenty acceptable, so I only took a half point for each.
-BLADE SHAPE- SCORE-8
Don't let my score discourage you. There are some things I LOVE about this blade shape. First off, drop point. A+. A PERFECT choice for this knife. The tip looks thin, but it's actually backed up by some pretty serious thickness. I have no doubt that this tip could stand up to a heavy beating. This blade shape also makes piercing easy. I'm mostly referring to uses in the utility category, but if you had to use it to defend your life, it's great for that too. It's also wide which I think is awesome both aesthetically and for hard use. So much splitting power and leverage with this blade. Fantastic. Here's what I don't like, and I'm pretty sure all of you can guess. The recurve. I know there are advantages in terms of cutting with a recurve, but they are SO HARD TO SHARPEN! Also, I would have much preferred a forward choil in this general area while keeping the belly. That would have been perfect. So, because its difficult to sharpen and because the flat area doesnt make a whole lot of sense to me, I scored it an 8. I'll go over this a little more in my "recommended changes" area of this review near the bottom.
-ERGONOMICS AND CARRY- SCORE-9
You would think a beast like this would be uncomfortable both in hand and in the pocket, but surprisingly, it's almost perfect for how titanic it is. The knife rests in my medium/large hand very comfortably. All the curves and grooves are placed well, making it comfortable in every position. It also fit my dads gigantic catchers mit of a hand really well. There's only one hit I can give it, and I covered it in the category above. There really needs to be a choil in that large flat area above the primary hand position. You can put your finger(s) in this area, but it isn't what I would call comfortable, and it doesn't really feel safe either. In terms of pocket carry, I was blown away. Not only does it carry light, it's fairly easy to remove from the pocket! You definitely won't be putting your massive smartphone in that same pocket, but after walking around for a bit, I hardly noticed it was there! I will say that the pocket clip has some strong retention, so there is a little drag when removing it from your pocket. But I wouldn't recommend bending it to make this easier. There is no lockbar stabilizer on this knife, and the pocket clip is clearly meant as a substitute because it sits on both the frame and lockbar. It's effective in it's factory position. The 3/16 lockbar has a generous cut out that allows it to slide into place during lock up, but it's still thick enough that you would have to push pretty hard to bend it in the opposite direction if the pocket clip were bent back a little.
-DURABILITY- SCORE-10
People throw around the term "tank" a lot when referring to a folding knife. The Fantoni HB-01 shown in these pictures has been referred to as a "tank", but its utterly dwarfed in length, width, and thickness when compared to the Satu. The Satu is a TRUE tank of a knife. And keep in mind, the HB-01 is 9.5 inches overall! For anyone wondering, yes, it is thicker, wider, longer, and heavier than an XM 24 both in the handles and the blade. I cannot stress this enough. When I hold this knife, the feeling is nothing short of pure confidence. It's big, aggressive, ultra sturdy, and thick. Absolutely nothing rattles or comes loose. I'm not saying it could do this, but it FEELS like something you would use to pry the door off a bomb shelter. Man oh man, it's a sweet feeling. Lock up is ridiculously strong, and the detent is nice and heavy. No movement in any direction, even when trying to force it. The knife runs on a bushing system that's similar, if not identical to the Sebenza. I think I covered this somewhere above, but in earlier versions of the Satu, there was an issue with the bushing being slightly larger than it should have been, which created some blade play. That issue has definitely been dealt with, so no more play. The knife locks up with a very satisfying *click-click*, and settles back into the handles with an equally satisfying *click*. You can really feel the strength of the detent. The area of the blade that meets the stop pin is arched, not flat. This allows for more surface area to interact with the pin, which GREATLY decreases the amount of wear in a single spot on the blade. To compliment this, the lock bar has a wide head for the same reason. The surface area that connects with the blade is very large, so it has to wear in a larger area before it can move further inward. It should only lock up more securely over time. Fantastic design in terms of dependability. Even after HUNDREDS of deployments, the lock up still sits at exactIy 40%. Not a hair off. I am not someone who agrees with the spine whack test, but considering the over-the-top construction of the Satu, I decided to go ahead and try to force the lock to fail with my hands. It did not disappoint. I could not disengage the lock bar by any means other than moving it correctly out of the way. That was enough proof for me. I'll admit I read about all of this in a separate review, but being able to see it in action really fortifies my confidence in this knife. So to drive my point home, 3/16" 6AL4V titanium + 1/5" thick 20cv + superb construction = extremely durable. Best Ive seen so far. As long as you don't accidentally drop it on a landmine, you should be just fine.
FINAL SCORE: 46/50 (EXCELLENT)
CHANGES I WOULD RECOMMEND
If youre interested in this massive full ti knife, chances are youve considered at one point or another dropping $800 for a full ti XM 24, or even $800-$1400 on a full ti Medford. With just a FRACTION of the money you would save by choosing the Satu, you could have this thing customized in almost any way you want. The blade could be custom ground in many different profiles given how wide and thick it is, and the handles are basically big, thick titanium rectangles. They could be anodized and or milled out in a huge array of unique patterns. I would DEFINITELY recommend getting a forward choil added. Per a conversation I had with Josh from Razor Edge Knives, I can get a choil added, the recurve removed, titanium barrel spacers added in place of the g10 backspacer, and even a different finish on the blade and handle all for a very reasonable price (Ill let you contact him for details about pricing). Ive added some pictures below to show examples of some beautifully modified Satus.
CONCLUSION
The newest version of the Grayman Satu ti-ti is an incredibly well built, quality folding knife. I believe it's worth every penny. There are TONS of quality full titanium folders out there, but as far as being built as thick and large as the Satu for the same price? Few if any. I want to be very clear about this. I am in no way, shape, or form trying to say that Medfords, Hinderers, Striders, Crusader Forge knives etc ARENT worth the money you pay for them. Those knives come with a very specific attention to detail that the Satu lacks. If you are looking for a beautifully designed monster tank folder that has every bell and whistle that you could imagine, by all means, drop the $$ on one of the the other knives listed. But if you're more interested in a big thick titanium folder that is able to perform equally well, built just as tough, and can be fully customized for a lot less, the Grayman Satu ti-ti is hands down the best option.
***BEFORE YOU READ MY REVIEW***
The purpose of this review is to break down the full ti Grayman Satu, and to show whether or not its a good alternative to its direct, more expensive competition. Basically, any full ti folders with similar or equal blade length, blade thickness, handle thickness, and overall length. I am not a professional knife user or designer, nor am I a metallurgist. This review is not based on hard use. Its based on close examination of the overall construction and minor cutting tasks. So, now that everyone has a general idea of where Im going with this, lets begin!
*SCORING*0-10, TOTAL OF 50
Fit and finish
Materials
Blade shape
Ergonomics and carry
Durability (not based on actual use)
-EXTRA-
Changes I would recommend
*******************************************************************************************************************************************************************
-FIT AND FINISH- SCORE-10
This is a SERIOUS folding knife. The attention to detail is nothing short of excellent. All the lines meet up perfectly. Both the blade and handle are heavily stonewashed in a way very similar to the current Hinderer knives. No sharp edges to speak of on the handles or spine, and the centering is dead perfect. I needed to break it in a little, but after a hundred or so deployments, the knife became smooth as butter while maintaining it's centering and lock up %. Zero blade play, which is a huge relief. I had read that they addressed the old issues with the pivot bushing being a little too large, causing minor blade play. Lock up sits at 40%, which I think is perfect for a knife this big. The edge on this NEW version of the Satu is now a very satisfying smooth edge, which is awesome. The original design had a toothy edge, which apparently didn't go over well. While some may argue that the toothy edge has it's own advantages, I will always prefer a smooth edge on any folder.
-MATERIALS- SCORE-9
I don't think anyone can argue that 6AL4V is the preferred grade of titanium when constructing knife handles. No hits there. The blade is now made from cpm20cv, hardened to 59 hrc, instead of s30v in earlier models. I'll do my best to explain why I think this is a good choice, but not the best one. cpm20cv, as most of you know, is basically the equivalent to M390. This steel is SUPER corrosion resistant, and holds an edge for an extremely long time. Both good things. Unfortunately, in the past, this steel has shown that it can be brittle. I have experienced this with two other folders. One in 20cv and one in M390. Both chipped when they were used a little harder than intended, which was my own fault. This is not normally a problem in a smaller edc knife when you're just going to cut paper or cardboard etc. In the case of the Satu, you'll most likely be using it harder. I think the steel will perform just fine, but it's reasonable to expect some chipping if you use this knife the way it was intended to be used. So, is cpm20cv the best choice for this knife? I don't think so. In this price range, I honestly would have rather seen good ol' s35vn. Some of you will disagree, and that's fine. These are just my personal preferences. The only other thing I dont like is the g10 backspacer. Im sure the g10 is sufficient, but titanium would have felt more complete. Seems out of place to me. I cant really count off a full point for each issue because the choices they made are still plenty acceptable, so I only took a half point for each.
-BLADE SHAPE- SCORE-8
Don't let my score discourage you. There are some things I LOVE about this blade shape. First off, drop point. A+. A PERFECT choice for this knife. The tip looks thin, but it's actually backed up by some pretty serious thickness. I have no doubt that this tip could stand up to a heavy beating. This blade shape also makes piercing easy. I'm mostly referring to uses in the utility category, but if you had to use it to defend your life, it's great for that too. It's also wide which I think is awesome both aesthetically and for hard use. So much splitting power and leverage with this blade. Fantastic. Here's what I don't like, and I'm pretty sure all of you can guess. The recurve. I know there are advantages in terms of cutting with a recurve, but they are SO HARD TO SHARPEN! Also, I would have much preferred a forward choil in this general area while keeping the belly. That would have been perfect. So, because its difficult to sharpen and because the flat area doesnt make a whole lot of sense to me, I scored it an 8. I'll go over this a little more in my "recommended changes" area of this review near the bottom.
-ERGONOMICS AND CARRY- SCORE-9
You would think a beast like this would be uncomfortable both in hand and in the pocket, but surprisingly, it's almost perfect for how titanic it is. The knife rests in my medium/large hand very comfortably. All the curves and grooves are placed well, making it comfortable in every position. It also fit my dads gigantic catchers mit of a hand really well. There's only one hit I can give it, and I covered it in the category above. There really needs to be a choil in that large flat area above the primary hand position. You can put your finger(s) in this area, but it isn't what I would call comfortable, and it doesn't really feel safe either. In terms of pocket carry, I was blown away. Not only does it carry light, it's fairly easy to remove from the pocket! You definitely won't be putting your massive smartphone in that same pocket, but after walking around for a bit, I hardly noticed it was there! I will say that the pocket clip has some strong retention, so there is a little drag when removing it from your pocket. But I wouldn't recommend bending it to make this easier. There is no lockbar stabilizer on this knife, and the pocket clip is clearly meant as a substitute because it sits on both the frame and lockbar. It's effective in it's factory position. The 3/16 lockbar has a generous cut out that allows it to slide into place during lock up, but it's still thick enough that you would have to push pretty hard to bend it in the opposite direction if the pocket clip were bent back a little.
-DURABILITY- SCORE-10
People throw around the term "tank" a lot when referring to a folding knife. The Fantoni HB-01 shown in these pictures has been referred to as a "tank", but its utterly dwarfed in length, width, and thickness when compared to the Satu. The Satu is a TRUE tank of a knife. And keep in mind, the HB-01 is 9.5 inches overall! For anyone wondering, yes, it is thicker, wider, longer, and heavier than an XM 24 both in the handles and the blade. I cannot stress this enough. When I hold this knife, the feeling is nothing short of pure confidence. It's big, aggressive, ultra sturdy, and thick. Absolutely nothing rattles or comes loose. I'm not saying it could do this, but it FEELS like something you would use to pry the door off a bomb shelter. Man oh man, it's a sweet feeling. Lock up is ridiculously strong, and the detent is nice and heavy. No movement in any direction, even when trying to force it. The knife runs on a bushing system that's similar, if not identical to the Sebenza. I think I covered this somewhere above, but in earlier versions of the Satu, there was an issue with the bushing being slightly larger than it should have been, which created some blade play. That issue has definitely been dealt with, so no more play. The knife locks up with a very satisfying *click-click*, and settles back into the handles with an equally satisfying *click*. You can really feel the strength of the detent. The area of the blade that meets the stop pin is arched, not flat. This allows for more surface area to interact with the pin, which GREATLY decreases the amount of wear in a single spot on the blade. To compliment this, the lock bar has a wide head for the same reason. The surface area that connects with the blade is very large, so it has to wear in a larger area before it can move further inward. It should only lock up more securely over time. Fantastic design in terms of dependability. Even after HUNDREDS of deployments, the lock up still sits at exactIy 40%. Not a hair off. I am not someone who agrees with the spine whack test, but considering the over-the-top construction of the Satu, I decided to go ahead and try to force the lock to fail with my hands. It did not disappoint. I could not disengage the lock bar by any means other than moving it correctly out of the way. That was enough proof for me. I'll admit I read about all of this in a separate review, but being able to see it in action really fortifies my confidence in this knife. So to drive my point home, 3/16" 6AL4V titanium + 1/5" thick 20cv + superb construction = extremely durable. Best Ive seen so far. As long as you don't accidentally drop it on a landmine, you should be just fine.
FINAL SCORE: 46/50 (EXCELLENT)
CHANGES I WOULD RECOMMEND
If youre interested in this massive full ti knife, chances are youve considered at one point or another dropping $800 for a full ti XM 24, or even $800-$1400 on a full ti Medford. With just a FRACTION of the money you would save by choosing the Satu, you could have this thing customized in almost any way you want. The blade could be custom ground in many different profiles given how wide and thick it is, and the handles are basically big, thick titanium rectangles. They could be anodized and or milled out in a huge array of unique patterns. I would DEFINITELY recommend getting a forward choil added. Per a conversation I had with Josh from Razor Edge Knives, I can get a choil added, the recurve removed, titanium barrel spacers added in place of the g10 backspacer, and even a different finish on the blade and handle all for a very reasonable price (Ill let you contact him for details about pricing). Ive added some pictures below to show examples of some beautifully modified Satus.
CONCLUSION
The newest version of the Grayman Satu ti-ti is an incredibly well built, quality folding knife. I believe it's worth every penny. There are TONS of quality full titanium folders out there, but as far as being built as thick and large as the Satu for the same price? Few if any. I want to be very clear about this. I am in no way, shape, or form trying to say that Medfords, Hinderers, Striders, Crusader Forge knives etc ARENT worth the money you pay for them. Those knives come with a very specific attention to detail that the Satu lacks. If you are looking for a beautifully designed monster tank folder that has every bell and whistle that you could imagine, by all means, drop the $$ on one of the the other knives listed. But if you're more interested in a big thick titanium folder that is able to perform equally well, built just as tough, and can be fully customized for a lot less, the Grayman Satu ti-ti is hands down the best option.
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