The new diesel trucks

[Bo T]

Just took a look at some new Ram 2500s. There was one Hemi 5.7 and about a dozen I-6 Cummins. They were all within $1k of each other! The I-6s were 'work' trucks and the Hemi was an SLT. But after all the add on equipment on the I-6s, there wasn't enough difference to sneeze at. Are the new diesel engines falling out of favor?

 

[Cutty73]

I have an '09 RAM 2500 Laramie with the 6.7 cummins turbo diesel.

It's expensive to keep gas in it but it's a freakin beast.

I do a lot of pulling/towing and it does the job very well with torque/power to burn. The exhaust break is a great extra to have as well.

 

[Sid Post]

Are the new diesel engines falling out of favor?

The new emissions requirements are causing some changes which many will argue for or against. Gas engines are adding a lot of technology as well so the cost differentials are shrinking. The real driver for many is the cost difference in fuel with the new "clean" diesel.

I really like my VW TDI Passat but, the cost of Urea and the low sulphur diesel has taken a lot of the cost savings out of this engine option.

 

[Lt.Col.Vortex]

Like Sid said, emissions control is cracking down on diesels. Personally I think its a waste of time (a diesel rolling black smoke is more "green" than any gasoline engine. the black is soot and its not toxic) I like diesels more because of the "work power" and longevity. With moderate care to your engine, it will last longer than the body and frame (800,000 miles is not unheard of).

The newer diesels (specifically Cummins, and after 2011 I think), they started pushing "cleaner/energy efficant" diesels. Meaning they made it mandatory that a LOT more computers/"emission" controls where installed. Up until like 1993, the Cummins in the Dodge trucks where all mechanically operated. Then came the second gen which had basic wireing and computers (for like ABS and auto transmissions ans such). The engine was generally left alone. But around 02-11 they started pushing more electronics in diesels (for dodges anyways).

Having a newer diesel is not the end of the world, they work just find and dandy. I would never own one because they one pain to modify (you trip one code and your screwed). But if you need one for work or play, they will preform and exceed your needs. The Cummins line of engines is one of my favorite and I'd say second to Cat engines, you cant go wrong with them.

BE WARNED, you are buying a Dodge. I'd rather pull my 20 foot dump trailer by hand use drive a Dodge (trans sucks, computer is the worst, a metal seat and two springs offer better suspension...). You have a decent chance of getting a better built one buying new/er, but just go into this eyes open. Dodge has the best pickup engine and it has the best axle (Dana 80 is the hands down best rear end for 1 ton and larger pickups).

 

[Murphnuge]

Like Sid said, emissions control is cracking down on diesels. Personally I think its a waste of time (a diesel rolling black smoke is more "green" than any gasoline engine. the black is soot and its not toxic) I like diesels more because of the "work power" and longevity. With moderate care to your engine, it will last longer than the body and frame.

The newer diesels (specifically Cummins, and after 2011 I think), they started pushing "cleaner/energy efficant" diesels. Meaning they made it mandatory that a LOT more computers/"emission" controls where installed. Up until like 1993, the Cummins in the Dodge trucks where all mechanically operated. Then came the second gen which had basic wireing and computers (for like ABS and auto transmissions ans such). The engine was generally left alone. But around 02-11 they started pushing more electronics in diesels (for dodges anyways).

Having a newer diesel is not the end of the world, they work just find and dandy. I would never own one because they one pain to modify (you trip one code and your screwed). But if you need one for work or play, they will preform and exceed your needs. The Cummins line of engines is one of my favorite and I'd say second to Cat engines, you cant go wrong with them.

BE WARNED, you are buying a Dodge. I'd rather pull my 20 foot dump trailer by hand use drive a Dodge (trans sucks, computer is the worst, a metal seat and two springs offer better suspension...). You have a decent chance of getting a better built one buying new/er, but just go into this eyes open. Dodge has the best pickup engine and it has the best axle (Dana 80 is the hands down best rear end for 1 ton and larger pickups).

I work at Cummins(CMEP), one of the two plants making the engines for Ram. Every year it's a huge jump to meet emissions standards.

 

[Lt.Col.Vortex]

I work at Cummins(CMEP), one of the two plants making the engines for Ram. Every year it's a huge jump to meet emissions standards.

Could you PLEASE bring back the 5.9L series

I know you guys work hard, and I know emission rules are getting more strict. I with there was not so many requirements demanded to be meet.

 

[TwinStick]

The reason many people have diesels is not because the really need them, it is because the transmissions gear ratios are ALL WRONG for a gasoline powered truck. REALLY, who the hell needs 2 overdrives ? The only thing that will work with them IS a diesel, because of all the torque available. It makes up for the wrong gearing. A gas engine does not have all that excess torque to play with. While the big 3 were on their C.A.F.E. mission, they geared for mpg. So much so, that HD trucks became NSHD trucks (Not So Heavy Duty). I had a 04' Dodge 2500 QC 4x4 w/Hemi 4.10 gears & 545RFE trans. It SUCKED for pulling our 30' ToyHauler (10,500 lbs). It would either be screaming in 2nd gear or lugging in 3rd & constantly shifting back & forth---even in tow/haul mode even after it was reflashed. In my 08' Power Wagon i have the G56 6-speed manual trans (sadly no longer avail w/Hemi). It pulls the same 30 TH with absolutely ZERO issues. This truck has 4.56 gears which help too but it is the manual trans grear ratios that make this a true HD truck. 1st gear is 6.29:1, 2nd is 3.48:1, 3rd is 2.10:1, 4th is 1.38:1, 5th is 1.0:1 6th is 0.79:1, Rev is 5.74:1. The 545RFE's are 1st is 3.0:1, 2nd is 1.67:1, 3rd is 1.0:1, 4th is 0.75:1, 5th is 0.67:1, Rev is 3.0:1. HUGE DIFFERENCE as you can see. This truck pulls my camper like nobody's business, love it. Shame on the big 3. No manuals trans anymore (unless you get the lowest power Cummins in the Dodge) & HORRIBLE gear ratios for HD work. I would like to see an auto with the exact same gear ratios i have in my trans.

I have to laugh when i go to the campgrounds now. I see SOooooo many diesels pulling tiny #5000 campers. They think they need one when all they really need is the proper transmission.


REMEMBER---not too long ago, we would pull the same amount of weight with a station wagon NOT a truck. Shame on the big 3.

 

[Murphnuge]

Could you PLEASE bring back the 5.9L series

I know you guys work hard, and I know emission rules are getting more strict. I with there was not so many requirements demanded to be meet.

We still run a few through now and then, but I think they're all warranty engines/blocks.

 

[mwerner]

Around here, for the last several years, it's been a fad for folks to buy the huge "dualies"..... Not to haul heavy loads or anything... To function as family cars. Very odd. Kind of the ultimate redneck status symbol....

I have a hard time with this... Diesels are incredibly noisy, stink, and the fuel costs more than gasoline.

No doubt there are folks that really need all that torque and horsepower... But these rigs are being used to go to Wal-Mart...

 

[texas gun person]

Around here, for the last several years, it's been a fad for folks to buy the huge "dualies"..... Not to haul heavy loads or anything... To function as family cars. Very odd. Kind of the ultimate redneck status symbol....

I have a hard time with this... Diesels are incredibly noisy, stink, and the fuel costs more than gasoline.

No doubt there are folks that really need all that torque and horsepower... But these rigs are being used to go to Wal-Mart...

Been like that in Texas for years.

It's always fun when you have local high school kids pull up next to you in the soot spewing bro-dozer. With all their shiny gauges on the A post. Then all they see is the tailpipe of my bike.

 

[Maddogg774]

Could you PLEASE bring back the 5.9L series

I know you guys work hard, and I know emission rules are getting more strict. I with there was not so many requirements demanded to be meet.

That was my uncle's favorite truck ever 3500 dually 4x4 5.9. Haulin hay or a tractor was like nothing. It spontaneously combusted in his driveway. They replaced it with a new at the time 2500 4x4 610. He said it felt so weak. I would find a goodol' 5.9 used.

 

[Lt.Col.Vortex]

TwinStick, also keep in mind the axles. The Dana 80 ( in most dodge 3/4 and 1 ton trucks) is meant for pulling and not necessarily highways speeds. Between the 80 and the low first fewr gears on the tranny (meant for pulling) I have to hit 2500RPM+ in 2/3rd just to get up to 40 mph. Granted a dieing transmission is not helping the matter, but the rear end of most work trucks are meant for working. Like you said, gassers are meant for MPG, and diesels where geared more towards work.

 

[Bo T]

Thanks for the info. My brother had a couple of 2500s in the 90s. He loved them and got as good a mileage hauling air as my 150. My nephew had a gasser 2500 as a contractor and got rid of it , picked up a newer 2500 Cummins and and loved it. He got one of the newer 2500 Cummins, and ended up staring at the engine warning light every couple of weeks. Got his money back under the lemon law. Picked up a 350 SRW and loved it. He just got a new 350 and I'm not sure how that is turning out. I think I will hang onto my 150 a little longer until things get ironed out.

 

[2TONYB]

I work at Cummins(CMEP), one of the two plants making the engines for Ram. Every year it's a huge jump to meet emissions standards.

I was reading where Cummins will be building the diesel engine for Nissan Titans. I hope this doesn't hurt the Cummins reputation!

 

[Murphnuge]

I was reading where Cummins will be building the diesel engine for Nissan Titans. I hope this doesn't hurt the Cummins reputation!

That will be the new LDD(Light Duty Diesel) located at Plant 1 , downtown about 8 or 9 miles from me. I hope you're right. I think the name was a big factor for Nissan.

 

[338375]

In 2002 I bought a new Dodge HD 3/4 ton 4x4 x-cab with the Cummins. It was still a good truck. It only had 133k on it.
I made the mistake of looking at the new trucks though, and this followed me home

It has every option available except sunroof. I only have 600 miles on it, but hopefully it is as reliable as my 02 was. I know I am a little biased, but imho Dodge has the nicest interior when you get up into the Laramie package. Mine has the leather interior. They are fancy looking, but not to the point of being tacky looking, like another brand in particular.
The new diesels are very quiet, and have incredible power compared to the older trucks.

If you aren't going to use it as a truck, pulling heavy loads, the diesel would be hard to justify. The HD pickups with diesel engines are a fad, and a fashion statement, for quite a few people that own them. Even after they decide they really don't want one, there will still be a lot of people that will buy them.

 

[TwinStick]

TwinStick, also keep in mind the axles. The Dana 80 ( in most dodge 3/4 and 1 ton trucks) is meant for pulling and not necessarily highways speeds. Between the 80 and the low first fewr gears on the tranny (meant for pulling) I have to hit 2500RPM+ in 2/3rd just to get up to 40 mph. Granted a dieing transmission is not helping the matter, but the rear end of most work trucks are meant for working. Like you said, gassers are meant for MPG, and diesels where geared more towards work.

I did not say they were meant for mpg's. I said the big 3 has tried to gear them for max mpg's & has ruined the transmissions gear ratios (read: Heavy DUTYness) in the process.
My truck has the same G-56 trans that is in the diesels. All i am saying is, that 10,500 lbs or less can be pulled quite well & easily with a gasser IF IT HAS THE PROPER GEAR RATIOS IN THE TRANSMISSION. Mine does. My axles are quite capable of handling the 10,500 lbs my truck is rated for. Many people I see at campgrounds are pulling trailers half the weight of mine & are brainwashed to think they absolutely need a diesel to do it. NOT true, is all i'm saying. They end up with one because the big 3 do not offer a transmission with the proper gear ratios for gasoline powered HD trucks.

New 4500 & 5500's use the Dana 110. Mega HD.

 

[Lt.Col.Vortex]

I was reading where Cummins will be building the diesel engine for Nissan Titans. I hope this doesn't hurt the Cummins reputation!

Nissan has come a LONG way and the Titan is nothing to laugh at. I would consider one next to my 5.9 Cummins. Plus I'd like to see how a V8 Cummins turns out

And to be honest (and no offense to dodge or cummins lovers), Cummins hurt their reputation by going with dodge. In the diesel world, the Cummins is still king (for mods and power). But when mated to the worst tranny (compared to like model trucks) and some of the worst suspension a truck can have (I would know, my brother and I have completely rebuilt the front end of our 2WD 3500 dodge), your going to loose some credibility. Most diesel guys will tell you, "I bought an engine and someone stuck this truck under it". I'm mostly referring to 99 and older trucks as I have not worked with anything newer.

@338375, why did you go with a 3/4 ton diesel?? I know a guy who got a 2500HD chevy and it always confuses me why people do this. The "HD" means nothing, its a 1 ton truck all day long. Its not a 3/4 ton truck that they put a diesel in (at least for the GM, Chevy and Dodge). I personally think the "2500 HD" is for marketing. The frame is the same as a 1 ton, the engine is the same, tranny, drive train, rear end..all 1 ton parts. Maybe the suspension on some are 3/4 ton, but I dont know. If a 2500HD is cheaper than a 1 ton, then I would sure buy one.

 

[Grayzer86]

Out of personal experience, the power of the 6.7 cummins is very impressive but I would never own one after the battle with my work truck. It's a 2008 ram 5500 and at 45 000 km it needed nearly 15 000 in repairs. Some turbo problems, the exhaust filter deal, all injectors, and other random repairs. For the record the truck has a man lift on it, never tows, and had oil changes and maintenance done before recommended times. Maybe just lemon of the batch, but it kind of soured me.