The Not so Magnificent 7

O

old4570

Banned By Request
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Jul 28, 2010
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7 Knives pulled out of my Junk Knife box !
7 Knives reground ..
7 Knives with fresh edges ...
7 Disappointing knives given another chance to not blow chunks !

From Left to Right

Chinese BG
Enlan EL-08 8cr13mov
CH-3509 D2 ( Allegedly )
Rat1 AUS-8
Herbertz 420
Marttiini 7 ( The disappointing one )
SRM 7096 12c27n

Keep an eye on this thread as I will be putting these to the rope .
 


The first knife to be put to the rope !
My CH3509 D2 ...
This knife regularly failed to surpass 150 slices with a 22 degree bevel / edge .

So the knife was reground for a tighter bevel this time around , I was aiming for between 20 and 18 degrees , and Nailed 18 degrees !
The edge did not roll ... No signs of a roll . no hints of a roll . The edge simply wore away .
250 slices @ 18 degrees is not impressive for D2 Tool Steel .. Though it is a lot better than 150 slices .
In the future I will have to try for an even tighter bevel , maybe 16 degrees .

(PS)
I have to note that my testing has evolved slightly over time to remove opinion from the equation .
And slowly it evolved to ... As long as the knife cuts paper - I cut rope !
When the knife physically fails to cut paper - the testing stops !

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A) There is always something to learn ( Me )
B) I want to get the most from my knives
C) Never be afraid to try something different ( It might work & it might not work - But if you don't try )
D) These be from my junk box , knives relegated to junk status ! ( So if I can lift their status )
 

Time for the Chinese BG knife .
If memory serves , this was a $16 to my door Knife .

Using that small sliver of paper for testing may have been a mistake .
But I always double check when I go back in the house with a fresh piece of paper .
So with fresh paper the BG passed @ 150 slices , and failed at 200 slices ..

200 Slices from a 20 degree edge ( checked ) .
That's not bad for a $16 knife ... And quite frankly puts some knives to shame !
Does the BG serve a purpose , I think it does .

@ 20 degrees and no edge roll , it looks like that edge can be pushed harder , to like maybe 18 degrees .
And we might pick up some more cutting power in the process . ( Or the edge might roll )
But in anyway , ........... The edge stropped back strong ..
So in the general sense ... No where near the worst knife you could buy ... In fact , it's very average !
 


Rat1 AUS8 @ 18 degrees !
I detected edge roll at 100 slices and kept detecting edge roll right up to the fail point at 300 slices ..
Now a long time ago I standardized my edges at 22 degrees ..
For strength / durability and hopefully decent edge retention . As well the fact that most factory knives were / are almost bang on the money at 22 degrees .
Apparently , if your blade steel is made from decent steel then you do get everything you want . Strength / Durability / Edge Retention .
But , with your more budget steels , this is not necessarily the case .
So I am some what surprised about the rather dramatic edge retention increase .. Really I am .
Anyways , I standardized at 22 degrees to level the playing field for testing .. ( Limit the variables )
So now , I am testing what a tighter bevel brings to the table .

Hmmm ,
A) I have too many knives to fine tune all of them
B) This is a test
C) I am learning something ...

So .......... If you really care about performance and not just paying it lip service .
You would
A) Know the angle of your knife edge
B) Know the performance of your knife
C) Maybe push the edge geometry to further performance ( If that matters )

Simply put , if you can gain 100% ......... Then that is a lot from a slight change to your edge angle .
It matters not the blade steel , a performance increase is a performance increase .
This is part of my education , and anyone reading this is along for a free ride .

What am I learning ?
A) 22 degrees might be a decent starting point ( safe ) for a knife edge
B) Tightening the bevel a few degrees can seriously improve performance
C) Some steels can handle a tighter bevel , and some steels can not
D) The user has to chose an edge that will support the intended use for the knife
E) And if you dont try , you will never know

But that's just me , I have a thirst for knowledge and a box full of junk knives or knives I used to consider junk .

I never cared about this stuff 40 years ago .. The knife shaved hair = it was sharp ! ( End of story )
It was only after venturing into Chinese Knife Territory that edge retention became an issue .
I had knives going dull after opening a few envelopes .. ( What the parking lot )
So I got me a guided knife sharpener .. And the decent into edge retention began .
It's fascinating and annoying both at the same time .
The short of it is , good steel is good & bad steel is bad .. But without testing , how will you know ?
Oh well , killed off a few hours of my time today ! Learned something I did , so not a waste of time .
Education is never a waste of time .
 
This is great stuff. Commenting to watch further. Also important to note that its not always the steel chemistry that is the problem, but rather the heat treat. Lots of stuff coming out of china will go ahead and stamp D2 on the side of their blades, which might even be technically correct due to chemistry BUT the heat treat that they are giving the D2 is nowhere close to optimal and likely so soft that the performance suffers. A bit like putting super low octane gas meant for a lawnmower in a Porsche. It might run....but you are not gonna see the performance you expect.
 
100% ..... How the steel is cooked is UBER important .
Any steel can potentially be good if cooked properly ! And as for stampings on steel ... You can print anything you want on a product , does that make it true ?
Just look at Chinese batteries .. They print the most outlandish things on them .. And most of the time , none of it is true .
Talking about blade steel is like opening a can of worms ... ( So many worms )
And I own a few knives ( cough - cough ) and the amount of bad steel ( my opinion ) is too high .
It would be insanely fantastic if you actually got what you paid for .. Buy a cheap knife , get a cheap knife .. Buy a expensive knife , get what you paid for ( rather having you wallet ripped a new one )
Why pay north of $100 for a knife if a $10 knife kicks it to the curb ? ( Been there , done that )
My wallet has been ripped to shreds , so I may have a few trust issues !
 

Herbertz 420 with a 18 degree bevel

Looks like the edge did roll @ 200 slices ..
My finger nail could not detect the roll , so it must have been small .
But a quick gentle 3 pass leather strop brought the edge back to slicing paper .
So I am guessing a roll ...
Previous result was a 140 , now 200 with a relatively cheap 420SS knife .
 

Enlan EL-08 @ 18 degrees ( 8cr13mov )

250 slice fail with a rather harsh roll ..
I did pick up on the roll from about 100 slices ..
Edge stropped back strong .

250 , I don't remember this knife coming close to 250 @ 22 degrees ..
And I dont recall a roll @ 22 degrees either ..
 
Good stuff and results corroborating others, thanks. Appreciate summaries old4570.
This confirms my experiences gifting to the grand kids, where not losing knives is the skill to be learned before sharpening, NOT, (wonder if sharpening will reduce their losses..,.), and inexpensive is the oops balm. Find myself looking at 4 S&W (head shaking...) flippers with 8CR at 3.25 inchs for 34 bucks total. Perfect for the younger but old enough ones, though my old brain insists on paying attention to some nagging wisdom, going on and on about not losing knives at some developmental (Cub Scout...) age, encouraging and buying into the waste stream, and what (hostle buy out)... reality has them re-badged thusly;
verses rules and training preceding knife ownership, buying from historically trusted sources either used or inexpensive lines, and not letting actual history prod conscience getting in the way of making a buck.
 
Too many variables ...
Speaking for myself , I was never a one knife guy / or two / or three / or one dozen / or ........................ never mind !
I still own almost every knife ever purchased .. So I can time travel back almost 50 years .
The ones I dont own were given away or sold to some one that wanted it . ( Or my dad broke it )

My Dad never taught me a damned thing about anything ! ( For what ever reason )
Everything had to be self taught or information sought from other sources ..
Those parents that pass on wisdom to the younger generation = Well done !
 
Yeah, but not just dad, also friends, coaches, great teachers, elders and experts who walked through my life. In the 60's, I had one cheap campmor pocket knife (still have it), later a Buck 110. Got a set of Case knives for work and a couple fillet knives for fishin after turning 18.
 

SRM 7096 12c27n @ 18 degrees
Edge roll champ ..
The paper picked up something from 50 slices and by 150 slices it was a fail .
So many things to complain about this knife .
It's bolted together really nice , but just poorly designed and with not so great blade steel .
Just disappointing all over !

Next knife ! Marttiini 7 ...... The bad one !
No seriously , this one blows chunks !
My first one was sourced local 2nd hand , and it just slices .. ( was it a 680 fail )
Anyways , I tried to find another in Oz and - nope !
So this one came from WhiteMountain ..
And it looks the same , feels the same , but not even close on slicing the same .
Has a freshly ground edge , 18 degrees ( maybe ) .. Last knife in this little adventure !
 

Last knife in this series ... Marttiini 7 ..
I put a 18 degree bevel / edge on it and
250 fail with what looks like a rolled edge ..
A quick wood strop brought the edge back , so I am guessing a roll even though my finger nail didn't detect one .

So what was all this about .

I standardized at 22 degrees for my edges .. ( For testing )
Even playing field ..

But this does not push , to see what the blade steel is capable of ..
Maybe a little like driving your car at 50 miles per hour ... And seeing what sort of mileage you get ( more miles the better ) .
Anyways .. These knives came out of my Knife Junk Box ( what I considered junk knives )
Some knives took 18 degrees and some did not .
And all the knives stropped back , some more easily than others and a few needed compound .
What I need to do is pick a better knife , and try this experiment with what I might consider a good knife .
 
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