The old fashioned kitchen knife.

J

jackknife

Joined
Oct 2, 2004
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I made soup today.

Its sort of a family tradition around here, that a few days after the big turkey day, the family comes over for the soup. This last one was a 20 pound turkey so there were some left overs, plus a nice big carcass to boil down for stock. A few days ago I made stock from the carcass and let it sit in the fridge to do something, I'm not sure what. For some reason stock, soups, spagetti sause and chilli seems to get better after a day or two in the fridge.

This morning I set to making the soup. There were carrots, cellery, and left over turkey to slice and dice, not to mention an onion. I decided to use the oldest knife I have. I'm not sure how old it is, but I remember mom using it in her kitchen to reduce food to edible sizes.

Its an old French Sabatier chefs knife that has been sharpened so many times in the last 60 years its starting to look a little like a boning knife. I can still remember mom using it when I was a real wee one, and like alot of the women of the day, sharpening it on the smooth flagstones of the patio much to dad's horror when he saw her do it.:eek:

I was about 6 or 7 at the time, and I thought dad was going to blow his stack. Instead he calmly walked over to mom and gently took the knife from her and told her if it ever needs sharpening again, please tell him and he'll take care of it on the big carborundum stone in the kitchen drawer. Please don't do that again. I have to hand it to dad, he was pretty calm about things.

Today the old carbon blade is a very dark grey from all the veggies its sliced and diced in the last 60 plus years, but I gave it a touch up on the Eze-lap diamond rod in the knife block and it was as keen as ever. It went through a whole bunch of cellery like it wasn't even there, carrots ended up in thin slices, and the onion never had a chance. Left over turkey meat? Done for.

I look on the other forum where they talk non-stop about super expensive Japanese kitchen knives made out of something blue and this white stuff. but today the old Sabatier made short work out of a whole big kettle of stuff now simmering on the stove.

When I was finished it was still slicer/dicer sharp, so I wiped down the blade and gave the old wood handle a light rubdown with some linseed oil. I think it was rosewood at some time in the distant past, but now the wood has darkened to an ebony hue. Still tight on the tang though.

I looked at the knife for a moment before it went back in the block. I'm sure there are more expensive knives out there, more modern ones with some flair to them and alot of recomedations from the new wave chefs. But this old dark bladed kitchen knife will serve a third generation of my family. My daughter and granddaughter have already said so.

I decline to argue with them on that point.
 
Nothing like good old high-carbon steel Great on a pocketknife, great in the kitchen. It sharpens so easily, and keeps such a keen edge, it really is surprising to me that stainless somehow wins out in the court of public opinion.

If you can either learn to love patina, or to lightly oil your blade, there is no downside to high-carbon steel except that is gives an off taste to tomatoes. For that, I'll take stainless. Otherwise, I am definitely on the high-carbon bandwagon!
 
I have an inexpensive Chinese cleaver and an old Japanese cooking knife that is so old the center of it is a eighth of an inch smaller than the ends (looks like an upside down ulu). Both were used by my father and I wouldn't trade either of them for any knife. They will go to my son and I hope to his son.
 
RobbW said:
... there is no downside to high-carbon steel except that is gives an off taste to tomatoes. For that, I'll take stainless.
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"Grandad's knife," an OLD carbon steel Dexter boning knife that my dad remembers his uncle buying for my grandad in the '40s, is the favorite kitchen cutter of both me and my wife. You can imagine the rich, gray patina this thing has. When it gets dull I give the thin blade a few licks on my Spyderco Sharpmaker and it's back to laser-like sharpness in no time. As to the taste on tomatoes, there is none. In fact, I probably eat at least one sliced tomatoe per day, sliced almost always with the Dexter, and can't detect any taste at all - other than tomato and salt and cracked pepper, of course. :)
 
I have a few carbon steel kitchen knives which belonged to my parents and I have one which came from my grandparents. Its nice knowing that the knives have been passed down the generations and will continue to be passed down until they are sharpened away :)

They are so easy to keep sharprned when compared to the stainless, and I use them for most kitchen duties. However when cutting and peeling lots of onions for a batch of chutney, or lots of oranges for marmalade I tend to use my stainless knives to avoid any taint or staining in the peel. After cutting a few oranges or onions the carbon steel begins to leave a blueish stain on the fruit.

Over here in the UK it is becoming increasingly hard to find carbon steel cook's knives for sale. A few years ago I came across a hardware store that was closing down and stocked up on a few Thiers Sabatier knives so that my kids can inherit some good cutlery. I have taught my children the benefits of good knives, and they already appreciate them :)

Also over here, there is a definite trend for people to prepare less food themselves. The supermarkets are full of ready to eat meals that you only have to put in the microwave. A lot of folk never seem to cook, let alone use carbon steel knives. Sometimes when friends come to stay with us, and are helping to prepare dinner or wash up. I hear the comment that "this knife is dirty " or " I can't seem to clean the dirt off this knife" when referring to our old carbon steel knives. They have never come across kives with patina before, and they take a lot of convincing that they are OK to use :confused:
 
I love carbon steel in knives except for in the kitchen. I beleive for kitchen knives stainless is the best choice. Unless your the only one who uses your kitchen knife they will be used and left dirty or wet. A patina doesn't protect the edge and that is the part that is effected most by rusting. Then there is the staining and off taste to different food. Some people are more picky about that than others like my mother is.
 
DJG said:
I have a few carbon steel kitchen knives which belonged to my parents and I have one which came from my grandparents. Its nice knowing that the knives have been passed down the generations and will continue to be passed down until they are sharpened away :)

They are so easy to keep sharprned when compared to the stainless, and I use them for most kitchen duties. However when cutting and peeling lots of onions for a batch of chutney, or lots of oranges for marmalade I tend to use my stainless knives to avoid any taint or staining in the peel. After cutting a few oranges or onions the carbon steel begins to leave a blueish stain on the fruit.

Over here in the UK it is becoming increasingly hard to find carbon steel cook's knives for sale. A few years ago I came across a hardware store that was closing down and stocked up on a few Thiers Sabatier knives so that my kids can inherit some good cutlery. I have taught my children the benefits of good knives, and they already appreciate them :)

Also over here, there is a definite trend for people to prepare less food themselves. The supermarkets are full of ready to eat meals that you only have to put in the microwave. A lot of folk never seem to cook, let alone use carbon steel knives. Sometimes when friends come to stay with us, and are helping to prepare dinner or wash up. I hear the comment that "this knife is dirty " or " I can't seem to clean the dirt off this knife" when referring to our old carbon steel knives. They have never come across kives with patina before, and they take a lot of convincing that they are OK to use :confused:
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You make some good points and your Thiers Sabatier knives should serve you well.

If you ever want to supplement your collection of carbon steel kitchen knives at some really nice prices I suggest that you look into Ontario Cutlery's "Old Hickory" line. While these knives' fit and finish might not be quite in the Thiers Sabatier class they are nicely put together for their price range and their 1095 carbon steel blades (Rc approximately 58) are all one could ask in an all-around kitchen knife. I also seem to remember that OH knife blades are a bit "harder" than TS blades so the American blades might hold their edges a bit better than their French counterparts. OH knives are also offered in a huge array of patterns, especially if one factors in Ontario's "Agricultural and Industrial" lines of knives.

An OH pattern that I particularly like is the 6-inch skinning knife. Once I get this knife's curved blade "a-rockin'" it goes through meat, vegetables, and fruit at least as well as any chef's knive I have ever used. So used this knife pattern's cutting action is very similar to that of an ulu but, IMHO, with a more "user-friendly" handle shape.
 
Thanks for the tip about the Old Hickory knives John, they look like real users ! I have seen photos of them in online catalogues, but I am not sure if they are available over here. We do have similar Sheffield - made knives over here:
http://www.sheffieldknives.co.uk/acatalog/Miscellaneous.html
I have a seven inch stainless version of these, and it is my favourite stainless knife. I'll have to look into getting an Old Hickory though. :)
 
Great post jackknife. For the past several years I have only used carbon steel in the kitchen and for butchering. The old hickory knives are great light weight knives. The handles are a bit better if you sand steel wool and oil them however. Lately I have been using Dexter Russell knives as well as old keen kutter, Utica, Robinson, and Wearever knives, and a Sabatier that has an elephant stamped on it. The knives cost me next to nothing at flea markets and were fun to fix up. The smaller boning and paring knives are all I carry for "hunting" knives now, and they work great in that role. The Sabatier is the best chefs knife I have ever used. Joe
 
It must be nice to have all those family heirlooms. Sadly I don't have any, I'm the first knifenut in the family.

Don't dismiss the blue steel and white steel Japanese kitchen knives. The Japanese make good blades; they've been at it for hundreds of years. True, they may be expensive compared to what one paid back in the day or even compared to Old Hickorys, but you can still get good ones at decent prices. You can pick up a nice santoku for less than an equal sized Henkels. Plus, they're one of the few options available for good old carbon steel kitchen cutlery. Sabatier no longer makes kitchen knives in carbon. It and most of the European brands seem to have fully embraced stainless for their lines.
 
DJG said:
Thanks for the tip about the Old Hickory knives John, they look like real users ! I have seen photos of them in online catalogues, but I am not sure if they are available over here. We do have similar Sheffield - made knives over here:
http://www.sheffieldknives.co.uk/acatalog/Miscellaneous.html
I have a seven inch stainless version of these, and it is my favourite stainless knife. I'll have to look into getting an Old Hickory though. :)
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Just to add this link,
http://www.sheffieldknives.co.uk/acatalog/Butchers_and_Caterers.html
Cooks Knives
(also available with Hardwood Handle, with Carbon or Stainless Steel Blade, blade lengths: 4" 6" 7" 8" 10" 12")

I have been using a 8" carbon cooks by Rogers, that I bought over 35 years ago.
And still going strong!
 
My 2 favorite Kitchen knives are an old Cattaraugus 7" french knife that is very thin and wicked sharp and a 6" Olde Hickory boning knife from my wife's parents house.
attachment.php

Here is a set my Greatgrandparents gave my paternal grandparents on their wedding day.
it is from Sheffield.
attachment.php
 
bdws1975 said:
This post is exactly why I love this forum.

Thanks!!!!!

Brett
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ME TOO!!. :thumbup:
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Jackknife,

I was just wondering, what that carbon kitchen knife of your'n, what it fetched($$ wise) 60 years or so ago..? Just curious?
 
As usual jackknife,great post !
As a former Chef, I love a good high performance chef knife,like the Tom Krein here with an 8" blade.
The two old timers make it look small.These came from my Grandfather Vincent Caruso's restaraunt in L.I.City,Queens,N.Y.
They have plenty of life left,but they are more a show & sentimental knife.
But carbon definitely works great ,you can get them sharp,with very little effort.
-Vince
DSCF2873.jpg
 
VCM3 said:
As usual jackknife,great post !
As a former Chef, I love a good high performance chef knife,like the Tom Krein here with an 8" blade.
The two old timers make it look small.These came from my Grandfather Vincent Caruso's restaraunt in L.I.City,Queens,N.Y.
They have plenty of life left,but they are more a show & sentimental knife.
But carbon definitely works great ,you can get them sharp,with very little effort.
-Vince
DSCF2873.jpg
Click to expand...

That bottom one looks alot like the old Sabatier of mom's. Same kind of forged in extra metal as a guard there at the rear of the blade. Same kind of wear pattern on the blade.
 
You know, Jackknife,
your posts are always interesting and good reading.

Many folks have suggested that someday you compile a book, and I have thought of letting my wife see a number of your stories. She is an experienced editor (has been the editor of a national business magazine and has edited a few books, just to see what she thinks of your style. (She has no interest in knives.)

However, I don't think that I want her to see the original post in this thread. If she does, she will ask me "so what do you need all of those fancy kitchen knives for? Even your Bladeforums pals think that an old knife is enough...."

(Of course, I am guilty of buying too many kitchen knives, and too many pocketknives, and too many sheath knives.......)

The point is, sir, that your posts could be the ruin of us all!!!!!!:eek::D:D
 
sunnyd said:
ME TOO!!. :thumbup:
_______________________________________________________________________________________

Jackknife,

I was just wondering, what that carbon kitchen knife of your'n, what it fetched($$ wise) 60 years or so ago..? Just curious?
Click to expand...

I couldn't even hazzard a wild guess. It was a old gray knife back then, so I don't know how old it really is. It may have been well used when mom and dad got it. I remember mom telling me that when dad came home after the war and moved us to Washington D.C. they didn't have alot of money and bought alot of things at the E street flea market. this would have been 1946 or 47. it may have been bought used then, I really don't know. There is no date of any kind, only a very faint stamp of "K SABATIER, PERRIER. If it was bought at a flea market it didn't cost much.
 
jackknife said:
I couldn't even hazzard a wild guess. It was a old gray knife back then, so I don't know how old it really is. It may have been well used when mom and dad got it. I remember mom telling me that when dad came home after the war and moved us to Washington D.C. they didn't have alot of money and bought alot of things at the E street flea market. this would have been 1946 or 47. it may have been bought used then, I really don't know. There is no date of any kind, only a very faint stamp of "K SABATIER, PERRIER. If it was bought at a flea market it didn't cost much.
Click to expand...

Thank You jackknife for your candid reply!:thumbup:
 
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