The old ones are the best? vintage vs.modern

Casares

Casares

Joined
Dec 6, 2005
Messages
341
Trying to start a new thread about what people reckon are the best users - 'vintage' folders or the more modern ones...
please forgive me if pictures do not work...this is the first time I have tried to post pics.

My selection of English and US vintage knives that get used, not kept in a box:

KIF_0512.jpg



Clockwise :
Taylor's Eye Witness Texas Jack, Forest Master Camp knife, Camillus Camp knife, Joseph Rodgers stockman...

let's see yours....
 
I'll tell you, lately I have been carrying a Case XX stag Trapper around. I really like the vintage knives. I have several older Case and Queen knives that get pocket time. I also carry a 100 year old Camillus. As far as new knives, I really like Queen. I'll post a pic tonight when I get in from work.
 
I don't really have that many vintage knives... I sometimes carry & use a Ka-Bar folding hunter that's fairly old, but I'm not sure when it was made.
I'll post a pic if/when I get a chance.
A.
 
Not sure what you mean? when you say 'modern', do you mean like tactical type knives, or modern traditional slipjoints? However, I feel the answer will be about the same either way.

I'll speak regarding the modern traditional slippies.

Ya know, alot of today's traditional knives are as good, maybe better than vintage trad. knives. The main disparity I see comes from the cost. Knives with stag, bone, etc. today demand a higher price cause those are thought of as premium handle materials. The vintage knives with those handle materials were more common.

On the other hand, I also look for the fit and finish, and feel that because the vintage knives were mainly finished by hand back then, alot more quality went into them. You don't see consistent fit and finish with modern trad. knives until you get to the premium offerings, IMHO.

Blade steel also plays a huge role in the decision.

There are some real nice offerings out there today from queen, case, bulldog, mooremaker, etc. However, I'm an old school type of guy, so I'll lean that way.

Interesting question, if I understand it.

Glenn
 
You understand it.
I have a similar view. I've noticed that most modern-made pocketknives I've seen don't have the same attention paid to fit & finish, though materials might be more "advanced" (ats-34 blades, etc.). It is an interesting phenomenon, though, that handle materials like pearl, stag, and horn drive prices up so much, while blade steel doesn't seem to have much effect on price (D2 tool steel and high-end stainless can be found for prices similar to cheesy stainless or old-fashioned, inexpensive-but-very-nice carbon steel).
 
glennbad said:
The main disparity I see comes from the cost. Knives with stag, bone, etc. today demand a higher price cause those are thought of as premium handle materials. The vintage knives with those handle materials were more common.
Click to expand...
Keep in mind, though, that back in the "good ol' days" (say, turn of the century), that slippie could easily have cost you a day's pay. It damn sure better have had premium materials! :D
 
Gryffin said:
Keep in mind, though, that back in the "good ol' days" (say, turn of the century), that slippie could easily have cost you a day's pay. It damn sure better have had premium materials! :D
Click to expand...


no kidding. I wanted som info on this, like from the case collectors club. I was looking for the original msrp and year of issue, so I coule adjust for inflation and figure out how expensive they really were. $30 for a decent slipjiont Isn't anything-I make 5x that easy, after taxes in a day. now, a $200 slipjoint is something to admire.

Another observation:
I have about 6 tl29's from various manufacturers. 3 from camillus. The oldest has the best snap and overall feel, the newer ones are kind of crappy.
 
Gryffin said:
Keep in mind, though, that back in the "good ol' days" (say, turn of the century), that slippie could easily have cost you a day's pay. It damn sure better have had premium materials! :D
Click to expand...

Yeah, I have seen a number of price lists from 100 years ago and more and a typical two-blade jack would cost about $1, which was a day's pay in many industries. Fancier knives would cost more, of course. And I have some Maher & Grosh ads from the 1880s and 1890s that advertise knives that are the same as most dollar knives then available, selling for 50 cents (for a two-blade jack). Their fancy ebony-handled whittler was advertised for $1, as was the two-blade cigar jack. A bone-handled 4-blade congress went for $1.50, and the two-blade cokebottle hunter was $1.50. Mind you that Maher & Grosh makes the point of underselling the competition in their ads.

So imagine being able to mail-order knives like that for the equivalent of a day's pay or 1.5 day's pay for someone in the trades. Imagine someone earning a carpenter's or factory worker's wages spending that much on a pocketknife.

The antique slipjoints that I have all exhibit outstanding fit and finish, they were very well made (at least the better brands, like NYKC, Ulster, Southington, H&B, Challenge, etc). But they better be well made for what people paid for them. Think about how much you make in a day; would you spend that much on a slipjoint? If so, wouldn't you expect it to be very well made? Labor costs were much lower then, so for the price you could get something that required a lot of labor.
 
I agree about fit and finish, and of course stag and bone were used a lot, as in these Sheffield knives from 1920s and 1930s...

These are from C. Johnson and Abram Brooksbank...with a small Joseph Rodgers in the bottom right corner.

KIF_0518.jpg
 
The old timers just did not have as much "stuff" as we do today. And judging from what I've seen they used everything until it was worn out, however they took care of their stuff.
Example: a man would have a set of nice clothes for Sunday and "special occasions". When they got worn they became his everyday clothes. His work clothes were his worn out everyday clothes. Socks ( stockings) that got holes were not thrown out, they were darned. Worn out socks were used for a rag or something. I figger it was the same with knives. IMO they prollly had one nice knife and one beater. I'll tell ya guys, we are spoiled.
BTW I've been trying to buy a nice vintage slippie on E-bay for years for a reasonable price. No luck to date!
 
I prefer the old ones if I can find it in good using shape.

Aside from the better fit and finish that I think the old ones had, from being assembled by someone who actually cared about what they were doing, there is something else.

It's a funny thing, but it's more a feeling I get from something old. Maybe that it was once somebodys treasured possesion, or old aurra. Like the feeling of a very old Smith and Wesson revolver, you get the feeling "if only this could talk to me of where it's been". An old stockman with yellowed stag scales, and blades a dark grey, has a feeling that no new Moore Maker or Case, or Queen can give. it's an intangable feeling.

Or I could be tatally nuts.:confused:
 
You can buy a very nicely made slippie today for much less than a day's pay,if you look around. I recently decided to try out the different patterns for pocketability, and after several tries ended up with a canoe. I like the slimness of a single backspring knife, and the "sunk joints" of this pattern that hide the sharp corner of the tang. Next comparing the makes, the Old Hen and Rooster I bought was too fat, the modern Cases I tried were not impressive, rough action, and stainless (I did not try a CV yet), but then I found a recent Queen City repro in redbone w. 1095 steel for under $50. After a month in my pocket this is the ONE! I have got no financial interest in these knives, but I love them, and bought a couple more just to make sure I had a lifetime supply!! Sorry for all the words, but I'm very impressed!!:thumbup:
 
To relate the initial question, and my previous comment: as nice as some of my old Case knive are, (I carried an old greenbone 6347 for years, and own nearly 400 old slippies) I can't honestly say that any of them are better than that new Queen City I am now carrying!
 
Just talking about Case knives, I've definitely noticed that the ones I have from the 80's and prior have thicker springs, thicker blade stock, and more snap than the newer ones. I've noticed this on the Sharktooth and Mako folding hunters, the Canoe pattern, and the 6292 "Texas Jack" pattern. These are the only Case patterns where I have both older and newer specimens and am able to make the comparison. However, on all three this is definitely the case so I'm inclined to think this is probably true of most if not all patterns.

I'm afraid that with regard to Case knives, my opinion is that "they don't make 'em like they used to".
 
Got to love the quality on the pre-1970 Cases. Thick backsprings and blades, quality fit and finish, and the older carbon steel blades seem better than the newer CV.
 
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