The old warriors fight on

golok

golok

Joined
Oct 20, 2000
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I thought the friends of Gurkhas here might want to read this:

BC-BRITAIN-GURKHAS (PICTURE)
Gurkhas start discrimination case against Britain
LONDON, Oct 31 (Reuters) - Three former Gurkhas began making their case on Thursday to try to force the British government to include them in a one-off payment to British soldiers taken prisoner by the Japanese in World War Two.
The three former members of the feared Nepali fighting force, now all in their 80s, were taken prisoner around the time of the fall of Singapore in early 1942 and survived starvation, forced labour and regular beatings for more than three years.
Theirs is a test case for some 650 other former Gurkha PoWs of the Japanese who have been excluded from the payment of 10,000 pounds each, handed out by the government to compensate British Army survivors of the Japanese death camps.
"If I have that money I will be well taken care of in my old age. I will have a house and a piece of land and I will be able to take care of my children," 85-year-old Hukumsing Pun told Reuters via his lawyer who also acts as his interpreter.
The government has argued that the former Gurkhas do not qualify for the payment because they were technically not part of the British Army -- a view hotly disputed by the claimants.
"I cannot believe it," 82-year-old Pahalman Gurung told Reuters in an interview earlier this week. "We always fought for the British. All our officers were British. We never believed for one moment we were fighting for anyone but the British."
Opening the case for the three at London's High Court on Thursday, lawyer Nicholas Blake said the decision to exclude the Gurkhas was irrational and illegal.
"We submit that the line to be drawn was not lawfully drawn," he said.
While some Gurkha PoWs did submit to the blandishments of their captors and join the pro-Japanese Indian National Army that was set up to fight the allies in the jungles of Burma, those who did not remained in the camps and suffered.
"On many occasions I thought I might die from the starvation and the physical abuse. But I never once thought of defecting," the still-robust Gurung said.
The hearing is due to end on Friday, but a ruling is not expected for up to three months. REUTERS
 
In other words, the British government is going to filibuster and delay until all the FEPOWs (Far Eastern Prisoners of War) have died of old age. Typical of the shabby, dishonest mentality of this regime.

It doesn't matter to these scumbags that they're going to spend ten times more on lawyers' fees than it'd cost to pay these brave men what they're owed. Ten thousand is an insult, anyhow. I've met and known many men, British and Australian, who were prisoners in Changi or on the Railway; those of them who weren't physically crippled for life had to bear traumatic mental scars because of what they'd seen and been through; men who were starved, beaten, tortured; men who were forced to witness their officers being ceremonially beheaded because they dared to ask for more food, or medical treatment, for their people; men who had to watch the desiccated corpses of their friends heaped up on mass bonfires like cordwood. Ten thousand isn't enough to buy a new (Japanese) car.

It's petty, it's dishonorable, and it's racist. It makes me feel deeply ashamed to be British.
 
While some Gurkha PoWs did submit to the blandishments of their captors and join the pro-Japanese Indian National Army that was set up to fight the allies in the jungles of Burma QUOTE.


hi i am wondering can anyone here expand on this subject as i have seen no mention of it , EXCEPT IN ONE GHURKHA BOOK. which makes mention of ghurkhas being tortured to try and make them join the japs.
but i had no idea there was a army group formed to fight allied troops in burma.
WHAT HAPPENED, AND WHAT BECAME OF THEM AFTER THE WAR ???.
CAN ANYONE POINT US TO BOOKS ON THIS ECT. REGARDS :)
 
golok

Your posting remind me of Liutenant Adnan. He is one of Malaysian legendary WW II figure. At Bukit Timah Singapore Lietenant Adnan fought the Japanese till the last bullet ... captured ... put in a gunni sack and stabbed to death ...

Many of Gorkhas who serve British Army were killed during the WW II in Malaysia (Malaya, Sabah & Sarawak) and Singapore. The Gorkhas served in Malaysia till late 1960s until PKM (Malaya Communist Party) no more in Malaysian scenery.

I have my respect to Gorkhas! Ayo Gorkhali!

Today if you visit Nepal you might come across with some Gorkhas veteren of Gurung who speak fluent Malay!
 
YES we all agree on the valour of most of the ghurkahs , but it seems there were some who were not so valourus.
it would be interesting to find out more on this subject.
as i have seen little hints of this in ghurkah books but no details. until this post above regarding
the pro-Japanese Indian National Army that was set up to fight the allies in the jungles of Burma QUOTE.
i will research this further. but if anyone here has info please share it with us .
:)
 
Here's a web page with a lot of detail though one can never be sure of the accuracy.

http://www.vho.org/GB/Journals/JHR/3/4/Borra407-439.html


I may catch a lot of flack for this, but before any condemnation remember:

a) American Irish nationalists sabotaged shipping to Britain during WWI

b) That Ho Chi Minh was supported by the OSS (precursor of the CIA) during WWII and wanted to be closer to the US before Vietnam was given back to De Gaulle to prevent communism from taking over France (or so De Gaulle argued).

c) The OSS protected selected Nazi's after WWII in order to gain info for the coming Cold War with Russia.

d) We (the US) helped Sadam Hussein when he was fighting Iran.

e) We (the US) helped some militant Islamists when they fought Russia - a few of whom later became the core of Al-Queda.

How fickle politics affects people. Makes one feel for the guys on the ground who are just supposed to follow orders. One old WWII vet once told me: "we went there thinking we were going to shoot for freedom and liberty. We ended up shooting for our buddies so we wouldn't get our asses shot off. And when we won, we just wanted to get the hell out and not have to do this anymore."

Even more thoughtful, a Vietnam vet once told me: "I volunteered 'cause I thought it was the right thing to do. I re-upped 'cause I thought I could help these small town kids they were sending out to fight. We shot at the enemy only maybe three times the whole time. We lost everybody to mines. To scope the mines, we took the village women and kids to the roads to see where they wouldn't walk. Nobody back home could understand. It still makes sense. But why the hell would anybody have to do this?"

By the way, both of them were thrilled to see Khukuri knives and to try them out.
 
Kahuna,

It still makes sense. But why the hell would anybody have to do this?"
Click to expand...

Your post demonstrates how crazy this sh*t gets...

If the guys in charge ain't there and don't know what it's like, no matter what it is--the big picture can get really, really stupid, really, really fast.

How long will it take humans to learn this one thing????
 
Glad to hear from you again, mohd. Hope you'll post more often in the future. Feel free to email me off forum if you can.
 
yep very intresting but it nowhere mentions ghurkhas joining the INA BATTALLIONS. :)
 
Ooops. Misunderstood what you were looking for. Try this link

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2000/20000102/himachal.htm#3

Its only an obituary, not a documented study. But it does mention two post-war executions which could lead your trail a little farther.

Here is another link which is even weaker. But its account (whether true or not) may interest you.

http://www.swordoftruth.com/swordoftruth/archives/byauthor/aghosh/wtbli1947.html

By the way, I understand some accounts state up to 20,000 Indians joined the INA. Given the military reputation of martial Indian cultures like the Sikhs and Gurkhas, it may be statistically unbelievable if none of them took part.

Sorry to all if this is getting too OT.
 
It's interesting, isn't it, how things can change.

I've just been reading a book about Asia during WW1; how the Germans hoped to divert a huge part of the British war effort into defending their Indian empire by inducing their Turkish allies, and the Shah of what was then Persia, to declare a Holy War against the British.

The results included a long terrorist campaign in India, with at least one attack per week, which was only quelled when British intelligence managed to intercept a major arms shipment out of San Diego. British interests in Asia were saved by - guess who - the Afghans, who (although they'd suffered two British invasions in the 19th century) refused to change sides when offered arms, military advisers and money by German agents. Most of the credit for holding back the Turks in Asia goes to the (Czarist) Russians; however, after the Revolution, the (Bolshevik) Russians turned loose a hundred thousand German/Austrian PoWs in Central Asia and more or less invited them to attack India. The Japanese, by the way, asked to be allowed to send troops to help the Allied cause against Germany and Turkey, but the British refused.

Throughout all this, the British cause had no more loyal defenders than the Sikhs, the Punjabis and (needless to say) the Gurkhas.

Things change, don't they? Through the nineteenth century, as far as Britain was concerned, the Russians were the bad guys, poised to swoop down and steal 'British' India. Then, in 1914, the Russians were the good guys, our most faithful allies against the Turk. Then, quite suddenly, they're the bad guys again. Now, as far as I can make out, they're the good guys; while the Afghans are the enemy, and the Germans and the Turks are our friends...

If there's a moral, it's that whole nations aren't the bad guys or the good guys; not Russians or Afghans or British or German. It's governments, who send brave men to die, who make wars.

I don't agree on many subjects with Lenin; but I like his definition of a bayonet; a piece of sharp steel with a citizen on both ends.
 
I don't agree on many subjects with Lenin; but I like his definition of a bayonet; a piece of sharp steel with a citizen on both ends.

HA HA I LOVE IT HOW TRUE HOW TRUE.
and he sure made plenty of bayonets in his time millions apparently. most of them his own poor citizens.

i may hate all the evil things lenin did bit that quote above is a ripper. i will write that down for future reference. :)
 
Originally posted by Kendo
I don't agree on many subjects with Lenin; but I like his definition of a bayonet; a piece of sharp steel with a citizen on both ends.

HA HA I LOVE IT HOW TRUE HOW TRUE.

i may hate all the evil things lenin did bit that quote above is a ripper. i will write that down for future reference. :)
Click to expand...

Speaking of definitions I like the definition of a Cigarette I heard years back.........

"A cigarette is an inanimate object with a fool at one end and a fire at the other."

Some of us were fools for years, some never have been fools for tobacco and then there are those who are still fools.

Of course I suppose this applies to many things and substances in our lives. :rolleyes:
 
To all, this post seem OT but it gets back to the path later on.

To Firkin, Kendo, and Tom Holt

Yup. It's a lot easier when one is young. When there is good and bad. And everything seems so easy to change. Reality (especially the historic sort which you thought told you what was good and bad) is pretty complex.

About the guys of the ground (the pawns in the game) you might get a kick out of the OSS guys operating in the jungles of Vietnam in WWII (this case was well documented in the leaked Pentagon Papers so presumably its pretty accurate). These guys worked with Ho Chi Minh against the Japanese. When the war ended they sent report after report back to Washington saying that Ho Chi Minh was a Vietnamese nationalist and that the US should support Vietnamese independance. When Washington gave Vietnam back to De Gaulle, the OSS officers actually dis-obeyed orders and stayed with Ho Chi Minh in the jungles to fight for independance. It was so embarassing that the French quietly had to ask the US to send some troops to carry them out. By the way, it's incidents like this that convinced Daniel Ellesberg (a researcher for Rand Corp. who was working on the Pentagon Papers for the US Government - he was strongly pro-Vietnam War until he started the research) to turn "traitor" and leak the papers. As you know, the situation eventually turned around to bite us.

How does this relate to Khuks? When I was surfing looking to get some kukris, I came accross Uncle Bill's HI site. It's worth reading the entire site if you haven't already. In it, UB explains why he started HI (and keeps it going). It may be bull. But I believe it rings of experience from a rare guy on the ground who has figured out how one can help rather than hurt in Nepal. I like and respect khukuris and the rare skill of the kamis. But I also like the idea that the few dollars I can spare are going to people who can use the money more than I can, as well as supporting an broken tradition of fine knife/sword making (which it seems only the Japanese and kamis have kept).

The Japanese are rich enough to preserve their "national treasures". But if the aristocrats' patronage falls due to Nepal's politics, it may end up that Uncle Bill and perhaps 1-2 other Nepal houses selling hi quality khuks to the outside world may be the only way this carries through this century.

Say, Uncle, ever thought of trying to pro-long the effort by quitting smoking and beer? (I know that would be too much of a sacrifice for me). If not, better start training up the next generation of Uncle Bill's.

;)
 
This just was sent to me by my ex-Gurkha officer friend:

Did you read that one of the veterans pulled out of the suit about ten days ago, when it emerged that he twice refused to sign the witness statement his lawyers put in front of him, because he said he had never said what was in it? It also emerged that his pension (British Army, for post-1948 service) exceeds the salary of the Prime Minister of Nepal, so claims of poverty were somewhat exaggerated.

Two sides to every story
 
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