The painful truth about ergonomics...a brief affair with a tempting Mistress...

[hookahhabib]

In the last 24 hours with my newly acquired SHBM, I've been reminded of the importance of ergonomics and how important they are to safe, successful knife play...

I've had a lot of fun beating on, slicing, and chopping anything within reach and have come to a painful conclusion: for all its amazing balance, versatility, and overall badass-ness I don't know if the SHBM is for me unless I start modifying the handle scales :sorrow:

Upon opening my very well packaged SHBM yesterday my first impressions were that this is a very finely balanced big blade. Balance point is right in the middle of the choil and none of the air around me stood a chance as I air-sliced away, marveling at how much quicker in the hand this knife is than a CGFBM I handled a few weeks ago or even the Rodent 9 I sold to help raise funds for this SHBM. I was (and am truly impressed) with how good it feels. Instantly, I understood why SHBMs are praised for their all-around versatility and I was eager to go outside and see what she could do.

The old school INFI held up well to some hard, seasoned oak, digging deep and taking out chunks. As far as I could tell the edge was as sharp before as it was after an hour of beating on any wood and thick roots in sight. The asymmetrical edge is a truly beefy design and I imagine can get insanely sharp with not much work. I received this knife with a not-quite-shaving sharp edge and decided it was good enough to go use and right now I'd say it's about the same.

By the end of my time outside, my hand was a little sore, and the area just under my pinky was the slightest bit raw. At night as I grasped my new mistress's subtly contoured handle, I did feel more pain than I expected and took note of a couple bruised feeling spots that definitely were feeling noticeably more tender after a few hours of rest time.

This morning I couldn't resist going outside and having a little more fun, only to realize that my hand was sore! Sore enough that grip was briefly compromised as I was shocked by the sudden discomfort and realization that this handle's relatively boxy design hasn't really vibed all that well with my hands. There are a couple hot spots that formed mostly on the spine region of the SHBM handle...I ignored the pain, got used to it and continued to chop away at what little chop-able vegetation remains in my front yard. Still impressed by the old school INFI's edge holding and SHBM's overall design. Chops and slices felt effective, and at one point during a miss judged swing, I overshot my target and took a slice out of some concrete!

That little moss-free section got cut oh soooo smooth:

I see the slightest bit of evidence from the impact on the blade, but literally one session with the strop or a couple swipes of a ceramic rod would have it perfect again! This INFI continues to impress!

So at this point, hot spots aside, I'm pretty smitten with my new SHBM. I figure I can find some real nice slabs from Shadetree and have a maker smooth out the edges of the standard SHBM grip design, perhaps make it similar to the hand-shaped smooth Busse scales and it would be pretty perfect. I did entertain the idea of modding the old school micarta scales but the collector in me thinks they should be preserved and left original.

Here's where it gets complicated: After some more time getting to know the SHBM, I decide to pull out my SFNOLE for some comparing (and so she wouldn't get jealous!). Within a few minutes, I obsreve that it actually is performing right on par with the SHBM, maybe with even more accuracy and was actually soothing to my now fatigued hand (with a now visible blister under the pinky after using the SHBM). I think I started going easier on my swings with the SHBM simply because it was getting to be a little painful. Now it could be the Banned edge giving the SFNO a little more bite, but also I feel like I was able to swing harder and dig deeper into whatever I targeted simply because the SFNO handle feels better to me. So much so that I'm now wondering if I should mod the SHBM at all, or let it go and keep my SFNO as my primary woods knife until the NMLBSHBM comes out next year and hope that I can get some factory hand-shaped scales for that...

I started this weekend thinking that I'd sell the SFNOLE once I got to use the SHBM and could confirm its place in my life as my primary woods knife. Now I'm having second thoughts - I'd like to say I can keep both, but the reality is that I'm delusional to be keeping more than one $500+ knife at my current income level, with the fact that I'd be using which ever one I keep as the main justification to spend that much on a knife at all (that and I have a tendency to become very weak and lacking of self-discipline around sexy INFI). Now I am a resourceful guy, but I think I may have run out of tricks and have a couple surprise bills to pay by the end of this week -- I'm going to have to further cull my herd of INFI and let go of one of these beauties:

Banana slug provided through the courtesy of Santa Cruz, CA

In an ideal world, I would be posting one of these up for sale tonight, and right now I'm nauseous thinking about that decision. Use and functionality are my main driving factors here. Based on how many amazing knives have come and gone through my hands over the last couple months, I know this isn't the end of the line for me, and I'm sure I'll end up with a model similar to whichever one I choose to sell again at some point in the future, so why is it such a tough call? If anything, I've really enjoyed being able to handle so many different models, getting a better idea of what works for me in a knife, while also getting to appreciate a wide range of designs, and then passing them on to someone else for their pleasure...I should be looking forward to the possibilities that lie ahead but I like both of these so much I don't want to let either go.

So what would you all do in this situation? Which one would you end up letting go, based on what I've said here... I'm open to ideas, and work opportunities in the SF Bay area, and any insights you may have...


Factors that may play into this decision:

-I have B10LE#14 coming my way at some point in the next few weeks, so if I keep the SFNO, it will soon have a bigger, more "choppy" companion for the bigger jobs the SFNO may be a little threatened by.
-Whether I keep the SHBM or not, I'm sure I won't be able to resist trying the NMLBSHBM whenever it comes out
-Selling the SHBM will free up enough funds to cover said bills and allow me to put a few hundred back into my steel addiction (found myself access to a pretty sweet Horton Necker, among other tasty items...)
-Selling the SFNO will cover said bills and maybe leave me with enough to have modified scales fit to the SHBM
-Maybe the NMFSH (and its increasingly Big Foot-esque status) will be an even better all arounder? ...whenever it comes out...

All I know for sure is that I'll be holding one in each hand while I watch the Walking Dead tonight!

Looking forward to seeing your opinions on this gut wrenching matter...

Thanks HOGS!

 

[resinguy]

Call Garth, and discuss the idea of getting hand-shaped micarta scales for the SHBM. Don't get G10, the material is more dense and it would upset the balance you like. It will probably be cheaper than the route you mentioned. And the shop can put a fresh edge on it, to boot.

 

[13ninjas]

Here is my two cents....

I would say don't mod the SHBM in any way........it would take away from it's original look, beauty and splendor.

I'm an ASH-1 fan over the SFNO.....however the SFNOLE is my favorite of the SFNO varieties......seems like it works for you very well for you for various tasks.....you said maybe even better than the SHBM.

I would guess you have more money in the Battle Mistress and could get more out of it.

There is supposed to be a NMLBSHBM in the somewhat near future so you could get one of those and like it better. And you have a B10 on the way which I'm sure will be an excellent chopper......and based on your description of your painful hand, the comfort level of the Res-C will be a big plus for you.

So......how much do you want for that SHBM that has chopped a rock?

 

[hookahhabib]

Call Garth, and discuss the idea of getting hand-shaped micarta scales for the SHBM. Don't get G10, the material is more dense and it would upset the balance you like. It will probably be cheaper than the route you mentioned. And the shop can put a fresh edge on it, to boot.

That's one idea I that completely escaped me, and a great one at that! G10 is out of the question for me simply on the grounds that I like micarta (of any variety) way more...both aesthetically speaking and for how it feels in the hand...the fact that it's heavier and would mess up the balance puts the last nail into that coffin!

13ninjas - if I sell it, it'll be for what I paid for it (a great deal I think!) - and if anything it should be worth more based on how little that concrete slice actually shows up on the blade...it now is INFI that's proven itself

I have no doubt the Res-C will feel nice on my (or anyone's) hands. It's not like I haven't done any chopping with micarta & steel handles before and just can't hang with it, I've done plenty and love it! For whatever reason, the boxy SHBM handle just doesn't seem to mesh that well with my hands, especially compared to the other Busse masterpieces I've handled :/

 

[Cutshaw]

Don't let nostalgia and lust for a beauty get in the way of what feels right. If one works wonderfully for you and the other doesn't, you've already answered your own question.

Some heavily lauded blades haven't done well for me and have met the market. I've yet to find anything, in that mid-range chopper role, that works better in my hands than the old school Ratweiler. I've owned many but have kept only the ones that are "right."

Best of luck.

 

[high desert]

I have a B-11 and B-6 among others. I'll bet you'll like the B-10 good enough to not have to keep the the sfno le or the shbm. The B-11 is a fast comfortable chopper and feels like a smaller, lighter knife when choked up on. I think the B-10 will even be better.

 

[Gravelface]

Pick the knife that works for you, even though it is easily one of the greatest knives ever made, the SHBM isn't for everyone.

 

[13ninjas]

13ninjas - if I sell it, it'll be for what I paid for it (a great deal I think!) - and if anything it should be worth more based on how little that concrete slice actually shows up on the blade...it now is INFI that's proven itself

I have no doubt the Res-C will feel nice on my (or anyone's) hands. It's not like I haven't done any chopping with micarta & steel handles before and just can't hang with it, I've done plenty and love it! For whatever reason, the boxy SHBM handle just doesn't seem to mesh that well with my hands, especially compared to the other Busse masterpieces I've handled :/

I didn't think you had wimpy hands. Did I make it sound that way? Sorry if I did, wasn't my intent.

I love Res-C! My Basic 11 gets as much or more use than any of my other Busse's. I too have a B10LE coming in "two weeks"........choiless #1.......I'm just worried it will have the larger handle Res-C like the B6LE which isn't quite as comfortable as the smaller in my average size hands. I look forward to see how it compares to my B11 and CGFBM. As far as full tang Busse's the ASH-1 with magnum scales feels the best to me.

 

[InquisitorLord]

Don't let nostalgia and lust for a beauty get in the way of what feels right. If one works wonderfully for you and the other doesn't, you've already answered your own question...I've owned many but have kept only the ones that are "right."
Best of luck.

I have to agree with Paddling Man here..

 

[hookahhabib]

Pick the knife that works for you, even though it is easily one of the greatest knives ever made, the SHBM isn't for everyone.

Don't let nostalgia and lust for a beauty get in the way of what feels right. If one works wonderfully for you and the other doesn't, you've already answered your own question.

Some heavily lauded blades haven't done well for me and have met the market...

Those have been my thoughts through the whole weekend....all the hype and nostalgia in the world is meaningless if I can't actually enjoy the item creating the hype and nostalgia...

Yes, I am fairly confident that small mods would make it perfect, but knowing that we'll (hopefully) have a new & improved SHBM to lust after and modify within a year's time, why go and molest a classic SHBM? I can wait.

I'm real glad to have learned all this now and glad I can further refine my own tastes in edged tools. Such are the merits of beating on and using these awesome blades at every possible opportunity!

I didn't think you had wimpy hands. Did I make it sound that way? Sorry if I did, wasn't my intent.

I love Res-C! My Basic 11 gets as much or more use than any of my other Busse's. I too have a B10LE coming in "two weeks"........choiless #1.......I'm just worried it will have the larger handle Res-C like the B6LE which isn't quite as comfortable as the smaller in my average size hands. I look forward to see how it compares to my B11 and CGFBM. As far as full tang Busse's the ASH-1 with magnum scales feels the best to me.

Not at all man, no worries...I figured you would have implied it much more effectively if that was your intent ;-) I'm studying acupuncture, so I probably need to keep them at least a little wimpy and sensitive anyway for the sake of my future patients

And yes! I can't wait to try out my B10, although I'm glad Amy hasn't sent me the "pay up" email yet...

Almost Walking Dead time!

 

[M67]

Once your hands calise a little, try chopping with the SHBM again. When I first got my Rucki, I chopped a lot with it and the micarta/vibrations tore my hands up a bit, now they're just fine.

When I first got my FFBM, I started to wear a spot on my pinky from the knife sliding, after a while it rubbed failry deep and bled a little amount.

When I got my NMSFNO, I developed a sore spot (bad heat spot) on my ring finger. After some use, and my hands healing (and me sanding down my scales), the spot went away.

It's new, and you're not used to chopping with it. Let your hands heal, and give it another go. If the SHBM still doesn't float your boat after that, I'll give you $50 for it, after all, you did chop concrete with it

AWESOME knife by the way :thumbup:

 

[BOSS1]

I'll throw in my 1/2 cents worth:

There's probably several perspectives here, but for me selection tends to be dictated actual intended use. What are you expecting or actually needing from your 'woods' knife. Really, seriously? Do you never get to far off the trail and are just screwing around and want a big knife for fun? If so, then yeah, if you want a bigger lopper/chopper, great go for it. But if you're actually going to need to use something that size for lopping/chopping, that type of activity for more than a minute or two tends to be work fast, and if the ergos/fuctionality aren't there, the issue could go from minor discomfort to something more serious--example: you're in a actual 'I need this to work, or things are gonna go way south' situation in the woods. It's one thing to be screwing around for fun, but if you actually get out there and depend on your gear seriously, you'll forget about cosmetics/lore/repuation, etc. and get what will actually do the job for you. And when efficient calorie use gets important, you'll focus on using the right tool for the job. That may be something much smaller and less 'tacticool' than what gets lauded on the internet.

Now I'm a big believer that between the two, the big knife is better than a tiny knife because the big one can do things that a small knife just can't. The big one may not do it all well/cleanly, but you might have a hard time getting by with a 1.5" bladed 'gentlemen's' folder deep in the woods. And if I had to pick a single knife to take with me in a 'this could get ugly' situation, with no other cutting tools (and that's an important factor), it would be a heavy duty fixed blade probably in the 6-8" range.

But all things considered, I'd say your SFNOLE represents one of the better/best all-around outdoor knife designs around. There's little that probably can't be accomplished in the field with that knife, if used properly. You could sell the Mistress and with savvy shopping get yourself a proper pack saw, hatchet, axe, tent, boots, backpack and other related gear for a proper excursion, maybe with $$ left over.

So long story short, it depends on what you're actually doing in the woods, and what you actually need your knife to do. If the SFNOLE works better for ya, then that's the right choice.

BOSS

 

[on_the_edge]

When I had that knife, I experienced some of the same issues as you. I wrapped the handle with some grip tape and all of the issues basically disappeared. You should be able to get it at any decent sporting goods store. It's was a low-cost solution for me that may solve your issues as well, but if you have already decided that you can only have one knife and the other performs just as well without any modifications, then it's really a moot point.

 

[hookahhabib]

I'll throw in my 1/2 cents worth:

There's probably several perspectives here, but for me selection tends to be dictated actual intended use. What are you expecting or actually needing from your 'woods' knife. Really, seriously? Do you never get to far off the trail and are just screwing around and want a big knife for fun? If so, then yeah, if you want a bigger lopper/chopper, great go for it. But if you're actually going to need to use something that size for lopping/chopping, that type of activity for more than a minute or two tends to be work fast, and if the ergos/fuctionality aren't there, the issue could go from minor discomfort to something more serious--example: you're in a actual 'I need this to work, or things are gonna go way south' situation in the woods. It's one thing to be screwing around for fun, but if you actually get out there and depend on your gear seriously, you'll forget about cosmetics/lore/repuation, etc. and get what will actually do the job for you. And when efficient calorie use gets important, you'll focus on using the right tool for the job. That may be something much smaller and less 'tacticool' than what gets lauded on the internet.

Now I'm a big believer that between the two, the big knife is better than a tiny knife because the big one can do things that a small knife just can't. The big one may not do it all well/cleanly, but you might have a hard time getting by with a 1.5" bladed 'gentlemen's' folder deep in the woods. And if I had to pick a single knife to take with me in a 'this could get ugly' situation, with no other cutting tools (and that's an important factor), it would be a heavy duty fixed blade probably in the 6-8" range.

But all things considered, I'd say your SFNOLE represents one of the better/best all-around outdoor knife designs around. There's little that probably can't be accomplished in the field with that knife, if used properly. You could sell the Mistress and with savvy shopping get yourself a proper pack saw, hatchet, axe, tent, boots, backpack and other related gear for a proper excursion, maybe with $$ left over.

So long story short, it depends on what you're actually doing in the woods, and what you actually need your knife to do. If the SFNOLE works better for ya, then that's the right choice.

BOSS

Thanks BOSS, that's a lot of value for 1/2 cent!

While I do like to bash around and have fun chopping anything within reach just for the pleasure of it, the reality is that I do like to take multi-day trips into the woods. Sometimes I'm not that far off the trails and may as well be car camping...other times I am off the beaten path (whether in a national park or on a friend's large property) and face that potential for depending upon my gear for my well-being (or at the very least, comfort). In those situations I do believe ergonomics can mean the difference between life and death, whether I simply need to build a fire for warmth or end up needing to build a shelter and start working on my next meal. With potential cold, wet, fatigue, and other factors working against me, knowing that my gear works perfectly for me in any situation is crucial. It's those concerns that now have me questioning if this is the Mistress for me. In reality, as long as I don't make a serious navigational error or other mistake, I may never face this kind of situation, but then again, accidents do happen and I like to be prepared for that possibility. Given my preferences for entertainment and tendency to go into nature whenever possible, this seems like a more likely real life use of a big burly blade rather than preparation for impending zombie apocalypse (although preparing for that is pretty fun too )

This rationale is what will have me attending one of Tom Brown's tracker/survival schools here on the West coast in February...

The one functional issue still holding me up from abandoning the SHBM is that I do agree with your philosophy about a bigger knife potentially being better when given the choice for only one blade. I do agree that properly used, my SFNOLE can do about 75-85% of what a 10+" blade can do, if not more. While I do believe the right tool makes for the right job, if space or weight is a limitation and one big blade can be adapted to serve the purpose of multiple other tools I would rather take that one big blade and work with that. In reality, will I ever find myself missing those extra couple inches of reach the SHBM gives me over the SFNOLE? Maybe in a snowy or very wet situation where I am trying to get to the dry wood inside a large log...can't imagine many other situations where it would be an issue. Of course it does get snowy and wet in the mountains of California so maybe facing this situation is a real possibility if I ever do find myself lost and in a real survival situation...

Man, all this internet bench-hiking, really is making me want to go outside and do something!

When I had that knife, I experienced some of the same issues as you. I wrapped the handle with some grip tape and all of the issues basically disappeared. You should be able to get it at any decent sporting goods store. It's was a low-cost solution for me that may solve your issues as well, but if you have already decided that you can only have one knife and the other performs just as well without any modifications, then it's really a moot point.

Thanks for the suggestion! I'll probably give that a try today and see how that feels...only ad to my confusion

With how the weekend has gone, more and more I'm thinking I may just have to let this Mistress go to another loving home. Even if it is functionally speaking, the right decision, my heart is heavy at the thought of parting with it. I can't tell if it's the SHBM lore doing that to me, or if it's the all around awesomeness of the design...either way I find it very hard to let this one go...

 

[Demonic1]

That's how I ended up with a NMSFNO. Ergonomics. I want a bigger chopper, but in a drop sheath the NMSFNO rides just right and is comfortable to use.
The current SH and fusion handles just weren't comfortable to use. I am waiting to see what the LBNMSHBM is gonna look like though. Until then my Ontario machete is getting beat.