The power of negative threads....

David1967

David1967

Joined
May 10, 1999
Messages
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In recent discussion about Emerson Don Rearic says: "That is the power of a Forum in the negative, to take business away from a Manufacturer for "past sins.""....

My question is - Is BF really that powerful? To take business away from manufacturers, knifemakers, dealers or even occasional sellers?

Do you base your decisions on just one single negative thread (or post)? Do you do search to find all relevant info regarding particular knife (company, dealer etc.)? Is negative feedback on BF more important for you than your own experience?

Would you just say: "No, I am not even going to touch the knife - it is piece of junk - I´ve just read it on BF."

For me the negative info is important - I would not buy such a knife over the internet without having a chance to handle it first. But it would not stop me from trying the knife when I had a chance and change my opinion. If I thought the knife was OK I would buy it even if it had some negative feedback in the past....

And you??


David

PS: Please do not use this thread to complain about knife companies (dealers, knives, etc.... Thank you).
 
Is BF really that powerful? To take business away from manufacturers, knifemakers, dealers or even occasional sellers?
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Yes. This is a pheomenon I have heard called, "Instant Karma." Businesses need to realize that if they screw someone over, 11,000+ people can know about it in a matter of seconds.



Do you base your decisions on just one single negative thread (or post)?
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Sometimes. It depends greatly on the reputation of the poster.



Do you do search to find all relevant info regarding particular knife (company, dealer etc.)?
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Yes. Fortunately, the search feature here makes that easy. If you're considering purchasing a knife from XYZ (be XYZ a manufacturer, a retailer, a dealer, a maker, or an independent collector/trader), all you need to do is a simple search and you'll turn up both the good and the bad. Now, weight the sources and the comments and that can help you make an educated decision.



Is negative feedback on BF more important for you than your own experience?
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Sometimes, yes. Any monkey left alone in a room with a computer loaded with Windows will eventually get the printer driver to work properly. Anything can happen once. The fact that I have had one good experience with a manufacturer, dealer, retailer, maker, trader, etc., doesn't mean that my next experience will be good.

Some time ago, I removed a link from my page to a dealer who I had had couple of positive experiences with. I did that because many people e-mailed me complaining about this dealer and there were quite a number of complaints on the forum too when I made my search. Even though I'd had a couple of good experineces with this dealer, all of those other people can't all be wrong.
 
As for someone overseas like you, i base most, in fact all of my knife purchases from these forums. I don't get a chance to inspect or even handle any of these knives, so i depend on others opinions.

I admit that negative feedback steers me away from certain brands. I know it's too bad for the manufacturer since i don't give them a chance. But that's just how it is, i can't afford to risk paying for knives some people are not happy with. Considering also that it would cost too much returning merchandise back and forth from the manufacturer.

I have to say that so far all of the knives i've bought from input here have been excellent, just as they say they are. :)
 
Originally posted by David1967
Is negative feedback on BF more important for you than your own experience?
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For who I buy from (or sell to/trade with for that matter)-YES.
There are dealers and individuals that I will never do business with, based strictly on forum feedback, and/or the lack of character they show on the forums.

For what I buy-NO.
With a few notable exceptions (Busse, CRK, Spyderco-rarely hear anything negative about any of these) there is no consistency to the praise/complaints that many products/companies receive. For every person with something good to say about a product, there's another waiting in the wings to bash it. And vice-versa.
If I based my choices on "zero negative feedback", I wouldn't have bought any of the knives I've gotten since finding BFC (even the CRK, the Busses, and the Spydercos).

I've bought about twenty......
 
Is negative feedback on BF more important for you than your own experience?
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I use feedback to help me choose between several knives or companies when I have a few knives I wanna pick up but can't get them all at one time. So I'll usually go for the one that's considered best by those I respect, but I'll pick the others up later when I have the money. With Emerson and Benchmade knives I ignore the negative feedback because I've been there and done that. I have Benchmade and Emerson knives and love them, so I don't weigh the opinions of those who would downgrade a company in general. But I would listen for individual products. Like: Is the raven any good? How do you like the 710? Things like that.
 
It also goes the other way. There are alot of knife makers and dealers that have created tremendous leverage by actively sharing with us on these forums. When something works we have the means to share our experience and alot of positive momentum can build rapidly. Just look at how quickly we designed and launched the REKAT SIFU, or ,how quickly many of us loss fate in MAD DOG KNIVES.

Information flows here, and unlike a magazine review, we are free to challenge and cross examine the source. The end result is a powerful piece of information.
 
As Chuck said, you have to take the source into account. After a while on the forums, there are certain people who's opinions carry lots of weight for me. Due to things I've seen here, there are dealers I won't do bussiness with, and companies whose products I'm hesitant to buy.
 
One of the fundamental principles of Internet-driven discussion, however, is that negativity always travels faster than its opposite, and tends to spawn offspring. Perhaps it's the nature of semi-anonymous conversation, or maybe it just has to do with text-based exchanges; I couldn't say for sure. But I guarantee you that a thread stating, "Maker X is great!" will not get anywhere near the responses that the post "Maker X's product sucks!" will get.
 
Sure,

positive/negative feedback influence me when I´m considering to buy a knife. As someone mentioned, some writers opinions weighs more than others.

When I´m doing deals through the forums the feedback is very important. I will not do deals if a company/person has bad feedback.

/Colinz
 
I use both the positive and negative info about a manufacturer or supplier prior to purchasing a knife. BladeFourms has been very important to me in this regard.

When reading a overly negative amount of info from one member, however, I usually do a search of his (or her) previous postings. If that person has gone overboard in their negative comments ("it sucks" or "it is junk") I usually don't give that person's opinions much weight.
 
Originally posted by David1967
My question is - Is BF really that powerful? To take business away from manufacturers, knifemakers, dealers or even occasional sellers?

Do you base your decisions on just one single negative thread (or post)? Do you do search to find all relevant info regarding particular knife (company, dealer etc.)? Is negative feedback on BF more important for you than your own experience?
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If I'm not sure about a brand/model/dealer, I'll do a search or ask a question and consider others' experiences. I've found that if 98% of posters agree about something, they're probably right, whether it's about someone/something good or bad. If people here seem to be split 50/50, e.g., brand X vs. brand Y, it's a pretty safe bet that both brands are comparable. If something has received too many complaints I'll be more careful or just steer clear altogether; if I've heard only good about a person/product I'll be a lot more likely to place my trust there. From being around here a while, I've learned to trust some members quite a bit, while others I'll ignore (and sometimes I find it amusing that they most likely have no idea that I respect or despise them).

I've learned a bit from having different knives in my hands and dealing with different forumites & dealers; but I've learned a lot from reading others' experiences.

[Would you just say: "No, I am not even going to touch the knife - it is piece of junk - I´ve just read it on BF."
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I would if everyone here agreed and no one disagreed. I mean, If one were to ask whether UC or CRK has more durable fixed blades for general camp chores, and the responses came in in favor of CRK, 100:0, I would believe what I read.

If a knife/company/dealer is really good or really bad, people will find out and people will mention it. If I didn't care what anyone else thought I wouldn't be here at all. I don't believe everything I read, but I believe a lot of it.
 
Great thread topic. For me it depends on the track record of who is posting (sometimes there are some unspoken agendas here for one reason or another).

Another aspect of the negative threads, is that it does keep some people from contributing here especially in the custom area of discussions since for many collectors and makers those types of interactions are not part of their usual knife experience.
 
I am going to make this deliberately vague so as to not point fingers.

There has been incidences in the past where some posters have absolutely come unglued when there is open discussion on edge geometry, steels, etc. I understand that everyone has biases, but to attack people vehemently for having a different opinion is pretty childish.

One of these posters in the last year or so happens to be a knife maker, and his posts were so childish and unnecessarily antagonistic that I will NEVER buy a knife from this person, I don't care how good he is. It really is a shame, because he only hurt himself.

Just the fact that we have so many talented and informed people on this forum that don't agree on all of these issues is enough to suggest to me that the engineering/art of making the best knife possible is still in a learning stage. Folks, that is why it IS interesting! If someone ever achieves the ultimate knife that never breaks, needs sharpening, or rusts, I'll buy one and move on to other a
reas where there is still knowledge to be learned.

Solving the problem means that it is no longer interesting!
 
Gus and Swede make excellent points!

One of the benefits of the forums is that we can see how makers, dealers, and manufacturers interact with other members of the knife community. This is something you cannot benefit from when ordering via a catalog or a website, and is seldom witnessed at shows.

It has become apparent that the person who stands behind the product (and how that person interacts with members of the knife community) is becoming more and more important - sometimes, as important as the product itself! While we all like to have fun every now and then, I think it would be incongruous to buy something from someone who always acts like a total jerk on the forums - no matter how good the products are. The same would apply to interactions between all forumites.

There remains a lot of "unspoken" (unwritten) opinion - both "pro" and "con" - that has been witnessed in private corresondence that is obviously a direct reaction to the various posts here. Therefore, I would concurr that the forums do make a difference - not only in what people buy, but who they buy it from.
 
Whether you want to admit it or not, anything you read on the forums will have an impact on your decision. I don't have ready access to a good B & M store in my area. What other forumites have to say about a particular blade is all I have to go on most of the time. A maker or manufacturer that takes an active part in the forums and conducts themselves professionally will gain a stronger customer base. Quality of product AND customer service will equal positive posts and increased sales. If either is lacking, negative posts and loss of sales will be the end result.

Paul
 
I don't pay too much attention to negative threads that come from a few "whiners" or that lack specific complaints about a knife or about the distributor/amnufacturer.

I do pay attention to multiple negative comments about dealers and individuals where the complaints are detailed and where the complainer has given the dealer or individual an opportunity to respond.

I'm in the serice business and have been most of my life. Feedback is the breakfast of champions. Good companies listen to feedback and try to learn from it.

I've learned that you only hear a small fraction of real complaints. Most customers chalk it up to experience and never buy from you again. Manufacturers who are willing to spend their time listening to their customers will be successful.

To me the most damaging negative thread is one that starts in a manufacturer's forum that goes unanswered. Since we're not bashing here I won't mention which manufacturers don't even monitor their own forums. I will take the opportunity to praise one.

I think one of the most successful forums here is the Spyderco. They listen to and respond to comments both positive and negative.

Users gain confidence in Spyderco's business ethics and products and Spyderco learns what's selling and what isn't and about as delivered quality and value. It's an example of the best of what the Internet can bring to both manufacturers and customers. I've bought several knives with confidence based on what I've seen at the Spyderco forum.

If all the manufacturers follwed this example we all would benefit.
 
Messieurs Kalanzis, Swede79, and Anderson raise an excellent point. If you are a manufacturer, dealer, or maker, you need to think three or four times before you press that "Submit Reply" button. Everything you say will be seen by over 11,000 potential customers around the world. You are stepping out onto a very big stage under a very bright spotlight in front of a very big and very important audience. Furthermore, that audience may not appreciate all of the subtle details, history, or personality issues. You need to be very careful about what you say and how you say it.



Mr. Aphthartos also touches on an important issue. When weighing one negative remark, one must consider the number of knives that the manufacturer, maker, or dealer in question made or sold that have brought no negative comments. Every now and then we see someone complaining "I bought a Benchmade knife and it wasn't sharp enough." Well, first of all, sharp is a very subjective thing. But, that aside, Benchmade ships several hundred knives per day. The fact that once in a while one gets out a little less than shaving sharp doesn't surprise or impress me. Given the frequency of that complaint, I'd say BM's failure rate is about 1 in 18,000 pieces. I have no idea how many BM knives I own (well over a hundred I'm sure. I have one safe deposit box that is full of just BM45s. When they discontinued that knife, I went crazy.) I have never had a BM knife that wasn't satisfactorily sharp out of the box. So, in this case, my own experience allows me to simply dismiss any complaints I see about BM sharpness. So, yes, in some cases I do allow my own experience to rule over forum input.



Mr. Razoredj, who's insight started all of this, is very right. People tend to dwell on the negative. Gossip, for example, is always something negative. There's also a human phenomenon (wow, I've already used that word twice today) that really manifests itself on the internet. I call it puppy piling. If you've ever watched a litter of puppies at play, they love to just pile on top of each other. When it comes time for a nap, they don't run off to separate corners; no, they form a big pile. Puppies like to be together and people like to be part of the group too. You see it in gossip. One person says something negative about another person. A second says, "I heard the same thing." Another joins in with "listen to what else I heard..." And another says, "And I heard..." Each one re-inforcing if not trying to top the next. Like puppies playing with a ball, they want to pile on and be part of the group... even if they have to lie, exagerate, or make something up just to get in.

We don't do enough here on BF.C and in life to share our positive experiences. I certainly am guilty of that.
 
I tend to do a lot of research before I buy, but sometimes I might choose to ignore it, depending on the situation. F'rinstance, I recently picked up a Gerber EZ Out, used, on a for sale forum. It has gotten nothing but negative press here (now I see why), but it was cheap, and I just wanted one. Simple as that. I don't regret buying it, but I'm glad I didn't pay full retail either. Another example is super closeouts at certain internet sellers. Maybe a knife gets mediocre reviews, but I am not a hard user anyway, and I can't pass up a good bargain. If I was spending what some of you guys are, I'd be more careful, but since the average in my collection is probably <$30 cash outlay per, there's not much risk.
 
Defintely.

I wouldn't buy an Emerson or Junglee. I think Paragon was on my "beware" list as well.

On the flip side, most if not all my recent purchases have been based on comments here.

I'm even tempted to buy a BM710 and L-UDT based on recent conversations. I sure don't need them, and I'm frankly not even THAT impressed with either, but with all the constant praise there has just GOT to be something to it...

Mike
 
Originally posted by not2sharp
It also goes the other way. There are alot of knife makers and dealers that have created tremendous leverage by actively sharing with us on these forums.
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Yep. I never really considered SOG before. Based on input from, I believe it was, RON@SOG, I would no think twice about buying a SOG I liked -- in fact, the new one with the bottle opener (companion?) is on my list.

Mike
 
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