The pre-64 Winchester Model 70

[hank_rearden]

no, i'm not going to talk so much about that firearm. i never owned one and never will from the looks of it. the days when i was shooting it are long past and i didn't feel anything special at the time. but now, 48 years after that particular variant was discontinued, gun writers and enthusiasts still mourn its passing. they talk about the mauser guided feed mechanism, the fully-enclosing bolt face, the all-machined steel receiver, first-rate walnut stocks, and 20 lines per inch checkering.

a rifle is a manufactured product and there's no reason why you can't make a better rifle than the pre-64 in all aspects. you have better steels, better machining methods. so-called old-world craftsmanship can always be recalled (as long as price was not an issue.) so why are people saying that fine weapon is gone forever?

now back to the reality of this forum. do you get the same feeling with one or several production knives you currently have? do you think there is already at least one fine production knife that's lost us?

 

[The Mastiff]

do you think there is already at least one fine production knife that's lost us?

Yep. Many more than I'd care to type out in a list. In fact there's more than one production company that's been lost to us.

 

[wackafew]

JMO...As for pre-64 model 70 winchesters. The Kimber 84M is a nice rifle and probably as good or better than the Winchesrter.

 

[Morrow]

EDIT: I moved this the Gadgets & Gear then back to General as I didn't read the last sentence of the OP. Are we talking about guns or knives in this thread?

 

[brets-ftw]

I think it's a bit of both Mr. Morrow,

As to the knives that have passed, I think the regular AFCK from BM would've been nice to stay in production, even with the newer limited ed. version. the price is a tad high. Same can be said of the entire 4x series from BM.

I don't know guns very well, but I do like my Winchester 67 more then any other .22 I've tried

 

[elkins45]

It's nostalgia and sentiment. The "pre 64" Model 70 is being made today, and chances are very good it will outshoot Grandpa's original by a wide margin. What people are really missing are he times when skilled craftsmen were willing to work for reasonable wages without HMO plans, prescription coverage, early retirement and the like.

Knives? Sure, how about the humble Camillus Yellow Jacket or the Schrade stockman in 1095? Those are classics that were produced by skilled American workers and everyone could own if they saved up a few bucks.

The AFCK was mentioned earlier and it works well with this analogy. You can still buy a brand new AFCK from Knifeworks...you just have to be willing to pay for it.

 

[retzius]

This is a bit of a loaded post for me to reply to because of my experience with the particular firearm you mention. I have a pre-64 win 70, a new win 70, and a Rem 700.

In short, much of the pre-64 love you see is nostalgia pure and simple. Its not that great of a bolt action rifle. In the pre-64 you cant single feed rounds, the "controlled round feeding" causes binding on loading at the expense of sure extraction, in a "hot" round its possible to rip off the base of the cartridge around the mouth of the rim, the stock warps in wet weather, I could go on but this isnt a gun forum... I like my post 64 Win 70 alot better (at least I can feed single rounds) and my GAP Rem 700 alot better.

To get back to your analogy, its easy to find this kind of nostalgia. Look at the love for the old school leather handle rat tang KaBar. Its easy to find much better options at a cheaper price point whose handle wont swell up in the rain and whose tang is full width.

Just my 2 cents...

 

[Bo T]

I am sitting here looking at my late 70's 61OT with high carbon blades and my recent Queen #9 stockman. In terms of cost adjusted for inflation the Queen cost less than the Old Timer. The quality of manufacture is comparable. The D2 steel on the Queen is harder, holds and edge better, and is more corrosion resistant than the steel on the Old Timer. The steel on the Old Timer might be tougher but I'm not going to test it. I'd have to say it is nostalgia.
If you shop around and adjust for inflation over the past 50 years. You can get a similar product for less or a superior product for the same cost. As far as the Winchester goes the only advantage back then is that you could order it through the mail and pick it up at the post office.

 

[midnight flyer]

People always find a way to lust and pine after the things that are gone, or things they can't have. The nostalgia and romance of "days gone by" are a common thread among gun, knife and fishing reel enthusiasts because they attach so much sentimental value to certain items. From what I have seen, that sentimentality causes that same old saw of "they don't make 'em like they used to" to cloud the judgement of folks.

In a lot of cases for a lot of different items, they don't make things as well as they used to. On the other hand, that can be a good thing. I never liked most of Schrade's folding knives as I didn't think they held an edge well. At their heyday, Schrade was a modest, well priced knife at a good value. Now there are those that wax poetic about having and using Schrade knives as if they were the grail of pocket carriers. (Although, I do have a Schrade Golden Spike that is a HELLUVA good hunting knife!) I didn't like the plastic (Delrin) scales on Schrades, and thought their steel was too soft. On the other hand, I have buddies that liked the Schrades because they were so easy to sharpen.

I thought Buck was better than Schrade, and about the same price. CASE was my brand, and a strong second was the old Boker knives from Germany.

The hard thing for me to swallow is when I see the exact same product I bought a few decades ago that has fallen in quality and value. Pertaining to pocket knives, I have said it here before that in the 60s and 70s I bought CASE knives and only worried about the color of the bone. NEVER about fit, grind or finish. Now I wouldn't buy a CASE knife I couldn't hold in my hand. Now that makes me wish for the old days.

Just because something is old, hard to obtain, or out of manufacture doesn't make me want it, nor does it mean that the old version was better than today's offerings.

Robert

 

[hank_rearden]

EDIT: I moved this the Gadgets & Gear then back to General as I didn't read the last sentence of the OP. Are we talking about guns or knives in this thread?

had this been post #2, i wouldn't know the answer. but i'm glad the forumers were understanding enough to play along. this thread SHOULD be about discontinued (or threatened) production knives.

most of the models i grew up with are still around. if there's a knife that i wish was back in production, it's the british F/S dagger. i can fill an entire wall with those if they were cheap.

 

[Mossyhorn]

I agree about the Marble's Ideal. It was a fantastic knife and the early knives were all hand forged and finished.

 

[d762nato]

I beg to differ i have a pre-64 model 70 made in 1951 in 30-06 thats a one holer and a 88 made in 1960 in 308 thats shoots the same. They still make guns the old way but their not production their custom guns just like knives. As for a mauser action their is no better action.
Why do you think their so used for dangerous game and betting your life on? As for knives where's all the smatchets you don't see them much. Yes quality has suffered these days with knives or guns ect. ect. unless you go custom and are willing to pay for it.