The right coarse bench stone for me?

K

Kirk_Ferentz

Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Messages
589
I use a set of three japanese water stones that I picked up from chefknivestogo (Beston 500, Bester 1200, and Arashyama 6000). I really like the bester and I LOVE the Arashyama. I'm not so sure about the Beston, but I tend to think that this is because I am using it as my coarsest stone to re-profile and work up burrs. I'm not sure if it is cut out for this. It sure seems to take a long time.

Anyway, as of now, I have pretty conventional steels (1095, SR-101, VG-10), thehardest being Elmax. I have flirted with the idea of trying out 3V or other tough/hard steels, and I would like to pick up a stone that will not limit me going forward. I remember seeing a post with a link to an article that showed that 3V was pretty tough to work with, and made mince meat of most of the water stones out there. So, I was thinking of getting something like a DMT XC or XXC.

Any thoughts on something that will help me re-profile quicker and handle tough steels? Any advice as to whether the Bester and Arashyama will work okay with the tougher steels from there.
 
Not sure about the waterstones, but my go-to for any serious profiling work is a DMT Diasharp XC. I have it mounted for the EdgePro, and also with small rubber feet on the back of the EP blank so I can use it on the bench. It has really impressed me with its capability, not even the harder steels even make it work significantly. It leaves a fairly coarse scratch pattern, expect to spend some time with your mid-range or your current coarse stone working the scratches out a bit before you proceed, but it handles re-profiling and repairs better than anything else I've found (not counting powered stuff, of course).

The Atoma 140 is reputed to be even better than the DMT in performance and life, although I haven't tried it myself. As an added bonus, either of those options is very well-suited to flattening your waterstones!
 
Yes I forgot that another reason I want a tough coarse one is for flattening the water stones. I actually have a small DMT coarse stone that I pair with a Fallkniven DC-4 to carry with me for field sharpening ... I will resort to that stone when I feel like the beston is taking too long. I think the jump from that stone to the beston is fine for the steels I have right now, although maybe I will need to re-think my medium stones if I get tougher steel.
 
I don't have any experience with the Beston stones, but I would suspect that going from the DMT XC to the 500 would be an acceptable jump. If you get into really abrasion-resistant stuff, it might be worth your time to get a Fine DMT as well as the XC, as an intermediate step between profiling and the waterstones.
 
A Beston 500 will be like a DMT Coarse hone (320 grit)

Diamonds don't do as well waterstones on carbon steels, that goes for grinding and polishing.

The stones you have will NOT work with tougher steels, I know because I have them.

Look at the naniwa Omura 150 grit or DMT XXC if you really want a diamond hone, good for keeping stones flat too.
 
no i don't have my heart set on a diamond stone per se ... I just want what will work best on the coarse end. will the omura work well to flatten water stones or is that something that you need a diamond stone for? Also, any recs on finer grit stones that will handle tougher steels? I don't need them right now but if I try 3V or another tough one, it will be good to know.
 
The DMT XXC is ideal for dual role but you can flatten on the sidewalk or with sandpaper, rubbing stones together works too but can be painfully slow. The Omura will fit in better with the stones you have and keep the same feel unlike the diamond hone which will feel nothing like the waterstone.

If you move to S30V and better then you will need all diamonds or shapton glass made for such steels. You don't have many waterstone options when you talk about steels with vanaidum.

Moving up from the arashiyama I like the 8k kitayama, unlike the others it has no trouble with harder steels and can polish into the 10k range. Won't do you much good if your other stones are not working though.

For myself I have two stones sets and their use depends on the steel being sharpened. Carbon and low alloy go to my waterstones and super steels go to my diamonds.

My waterstones are
1k arashiyama
Naniwa green brick
6k arashiyama
8k Kitayama
10k imanishi
To be added
Beston 500
Omura 150

But thsose shapton pro's..... :)
 
There is also a "Green stone" found at most places, its usually around 200 grit and made of silicon carbide. Another option.
 
Very informative. I'll pick up one of those coarse stones. I have flirted with the idea of getting something like that 8k kitayama, but isn't the 6k arashiyama more like an 8k stone? As of now, I finish on the arashiyama and call it good, although I think that I'm going to start going to some DMT pastes from there.

With the pastes, I plan to start experimenting with various media (starting with paint sticks, maybe trying bolsa) ... I wonder if (if and when I get a tougher steel) I could go from one of those very coarse stones to some medium grit stone to the pastes ... probably not ideal I know, but might work okay. I guess I'm assuming that the pastes work okay with the tough steels since they are DMT products.
 
So I see that the Kitayama 8K is more like a 12K stone, is that your experience knifenut? Do you find the Kitayama or the imanishi to be finer in reality? Either one of those might be a nice compliment to my arashiyama.
 
The kitayama does work itself up to a very high gloss finish, the finish is 10k or higher but a true 10k stone does make a difference.

The numbers given to stones is often more of reference most medium to fine grit stones will refine the edge further than the stated grit by working the mud or letting the surface build up with metal. I have heard the kitayama called many grits but I think it was better described as "a really good 8k". Just like the arashiyama is a really good 6k But not a 8k like the kitayama is not a 12k, its confusing really because it looks better and feels better than it should but that's just the result of a good stone. There are many options to get sharper and more polished edge from where your at now so keep your thoughts open to other stones.

As for compounds, they have a place but once you get a good 8k or better you might not find much use for them. A Boron carbide or CNB compound around 1 micron would be a good finish for the steels you listed. The DMT compounds work well but are not a proper complement to the stone or steels you sharpen.
 
I don't really like the imanishi that much, its a good stone for the price but it cuts slow and builds on the surface fast making it difficult to use. 10k is also extremely fine so unless you need it it might be too fine for any practical use.

If you want a polishing stone the kitayama is a good stone to do it.
 
I'm probably going to try a compound ... not so much because I think it is necessary, but just want to try it out. Does anyone have an opinion on whether a 1 or .5 micron compound would be best after the 8k kitayama? I would definitely go with the 1 micron after my 6k arashiyama, but I am seeing varying things on whether an 8 to 10k japanese water stone is equivalent to 3 microns or closer to 1.
 
Last edited:
You will need a 3 and a 1 micron to step down from either stone. 1 micron alone does well but is just a little too fine to remove the remaining scratch marks.
 
Also, bear in mind that grit size is only one of a large number of factors that determines the kind of edge you'll get off a stone. Friability of the grit, binder type, abrasive loading, hand pressure and a whole number of other things affect how deep and pronounced the scratch pattern will be.
 
Komitadjie said:
Also, bear in mind that grit size is only one of a large number of factors that determines the kind of edge you'll get off a stone. Friability of the grit, binder type, abrasive loading, hand pressure and a whole number of other things affect how deep and pronounced the scratch pattern will be.
Click to expand...

Very true.
 
I can find the 1 micron boron carbide or CNB compound easy enough, but I don't really see either of those in a 3 micron grit. What compound should I use for the 3 micron step? Most of what I see is the diamond pastes.
 
I only know of the DMT paste being 3 microns.
 
All you would need is a Med and Fine Norton Sil Carbide stones to deal with the bevels refreshing the edge then the other stones would work fine from there.

Once the bevels are set most steels really aren't that bad except for the High Alloy Extreme wear resistant steels.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top