The road to small.

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Oct 2, 2004
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A thread by our forummate Coyote711 made me think, (always a dangerous proposition). Over a lifetime, I seen to have covered a lot of ground as to accumulating a large range of knives. But one thing I did note was, that as I got older, I progressed to smaller knives.

Looking back, most of my knives hav always been in the 3 1/2 to 3 7/8th size. My old scout knife was a 3 1/2, and my old Buck stockman was 3 7/8ths. For a very long time they were the standards.

Now I actually use knives that are quite small by comparison. I became a fan of the Case peanut, and also the tiny Victorinox classic. I think there were a couple of very deffinate moments where I became aware of the smaller knives, and that I began to question just how much knife did I need in my life. Those moments were usually created by a particular person.

Getting laid off from a job of almost 20 years was a turning point.

In 1997, they tossed us out the door when they sent all fabrication jobs to Mexico. My reaction to this was to take a trip around the country with my better half, Karen. Some time for just the two of us to go camping and exploring. We tossed the camping gear in the back of the Toyota and off we went on a month long counter clockwise trip around the country. West to the Badlands, Custer National park, Yellowstone, Bryce, Grand Canyon, Monument Valley, Canyonlands, Arches, and Mesa Verde. It was at Mesa Verde I had a lightbulb over the head moment.

I had always had an interest in anthropology and the primitive history, and Mesa Verde was good for that. Walking among the ancient cliff dwellings and examining thier life was riviting. But the ranger's demonstration of how effective flint and obsidian knives were got my attention.

A ranger at the museum had brought in the rear haunch of a road killed deer, and was giving a demo of how effective the old tools were. I watched as he took a single flake of obsidian and skinned the hide from the haunch of deer. It cut right through the hide and meat. It wasn't more than the size of a blade of a very small penknife like a peanut or Eisenhower. It was a great demo of just how much blade was not needed. As I watched that park ranger, I thought about my dad with his little peanut he'd carried his whole life from the moment his mother gave him the small gift package there on the train platform as he was leaving for college. I thought about my old friend Andy Wardon and how easy he dressed out a deer with his little Buck cadet.

By this time I had already been brought over to the Vic classic by Karen. She'd brought one home after her company had bought some with their logo on them to give out to clients. I was very skeptical of the tiny thing, but I watched for months as Karen used the living daylights out of that tiny little thing. Impressed, I put a classic on my keyring, and for a few months following I made it a point to use the little classic for any knife job before going for a 'real' knife in my pocket. It was a surprising experiment. For 99% of what I did with a pocket knife, the inch and a half blade did just fine. Weak points were food duty and use on wood on camping trips.

Watching the ranger skin and cut meat with that stone flake, an idea clicked in my head. I understood better all thse old guys with pen knives, that always seemed to get along just fine without the knife of the month the knife magazines put on the cover. Most of those old guys never knew knife magazines even existed. They never knew how ill equipted they were.

In 1997 I had just semi-retired my Buck 301 stockman, and was using my old friend Andy's Buck 303 cadet. I had not experianced any problems going to the smaller knife, and if anything, I found the cadet a nicer package at 3 1/4 inches than my old 301 stockman at 3 7/8ths inches. Smaller blades, but I had not noticed any lack of cutting. It was about this time I had sent my dad's old peanut back to Case for new main blade and pile side scale repair. I started carrying the peanut and grew to like having my pockets weigh less. I started to imitate my dad by semi-retiring my full size sak's and putting a Sears 4-way keychain screwdriver and a P-38 on my keyring. There I was, going about my daily business with a classic on a keyring, a peanut or cadet in my pocket, and doing just fine. After a while, if I picked up my old stockman or Wenger SI, they felt huge in my hand.

I think the late 1990's was the real start of my downsizing. Between the peanut my father left behind, Karen and the great classic experiment, and park ranger out at Mesa Verde Nation Park, I started to downsize my day to day cutlery. I was at first surprised at how well I got by with 2 inches of blade if not a little less in the case of the classic. But then I adapted, and just went on about my life enjoying the chance to 'accumulate' in a whole other direction. Once in a while a larger knife would slip in to a pocket. I'd let a number 8 Opinel come along for a day, or my old Wenger SI would get drafted for a day if I were doing a home project. But in general, I downsized. Small became the norm for the day.

It was then I discovered a benifit of small knives; people thought they were cute. I even had a lady call one of my knives pretty. Living in these politically correct times, I had become a little wary of pulling open a knife in public. But with a nice peanut or similar knife, I found some people, especially younger late 20's early 30's yuppy types, making comments on how they remember a favorite old grandad or uncle having a pocket knife like that. Nobody ever made a negative comment on one of my small Case pocket knives.

Not too long ago Karen and I were downtown at the Smithsonian museum in D.C. and they had a perfect replica of Otzi the iceman's gear with a manaqin dressed up in his stuff. There was a copper hatchet and a flint knife. The knife was a small one, maybe a tad less than 2 inches, with a tiny bit of the tip broken off. They think he was in a heck of a fight hours before he died from an arrow in the back. Blood that is not his has been found on his clothing, and blood on the knife. The tip may have been broken at that time. He was wearing a bearskin cloak, hide boots, and fur hat. I can only presume that he skinned those hides with his flint knife of a modest size.

If a 2 inch blade was good enough for Otzi, it's good enough for me.
 
My hunting knives have always been on the smaller side, although not 2 inches.
I learned from my Grandad, and never found good reason to change..

I've always felt that only so much cutting edge can be used at one time, especially when working on game. Plus I like the fact that I can feel what the knife is doing. YMMV

Its funny you wrote this, because about an hour ago I was sortin through my knives and came across an older Schrade 272. I have always liked this knife.
It has a cutting edge of 2 inches, plus it has nice swedges on the blades...

I have no doubt that if I had to, this knife would serve well for most all my daily needs.

I think we have become our own worst enemy with modern technology, and all the choices we have. Years ago there weren't as many options as there are today, so people bought what they liked and used it, until it was lost or worn out. We have all seen knives that have been sharpened so far, that we wouldn't even consider buying them. Back in the day though, I would imagine people looked at them as still having life left in it, not how much was worn away. Kind of the glass half empty or half full scenario.

Although there are many options available today, and we may not always like what another person does, most of us here are drawn to the pure function, looks and simplicity of the slip joint...
JMHO
 
I think we have become our own worst enemy with modern technology, and all the choices we have. Years ago there weren't as many options as there are today, so people bought what they liked and used it, until it was lost or worn out. We have all seen knives that have been sharpened so far, that we wouldn't even consider buying them. Back in the day though, I would imagine people looked at them as still having life left in it, not how much was worn away. Kind of the glass half empty or half full scenario.

Well said! More excellent food for thought! :thumbup:
 
My choice for daily carry is use is around 3&1/2. Fits in the pocket nicely and dosen't scare anyone.
 
thought provoking thread. i am also trying to retire my bulky sak for a traditional.

i just bought a swisstech keychain screwdriver set and put my long time sak huntsman in a drawer. i am still up in the air if a traditional slippie plus the swisstech is more functional than the sak. i actually used the saw quite often.

this downsizing thing is a fun way to play with new tools regardless.
 
I've tried small (peanut size and thereabouts) and have always gone back to something larger. The little knives just don't have enough blade for a lot of what I do.
 
I just picked up a SAK Pioneer Pruner to take the place of my Pioneer Harvester in my pocket for work.
 
Outside of food prep, a sub 2 inch blade would work just fine for the vast majority of my normal day-to-day knife uses (Mostly opening packages), and I almost always carry a small knife (Usually a traditional slippie) to use in non-knife-friendly situations. I do like the better grip of a larger handle, but given the existence of knives with small blades and big handles...

I own and rotate through a bunch of bigger knives, and keep buying new ones (Big and small), not because I need to... but because it's fun to play with different designs and steels and all that.
 
i am also trying to retire my bulky sak for a traditional.

That's exactly why they make SAKs that aren't bulky. Consider picking up an 84mm model, like the Tourist or the small Tinker. By the way, to a lot of folks, especially where I live now, there's no question of SAK or traditional - SAKs are traditional (at least the more basic old school models).

Lately I've gone back to carrying my Tourist almost exclusively. On a lark the other night, I pulled out my Spyderco Endura to fiddle around with. Just holding it, the same old feeling came flooding back to me: "Who am I kidding with this thing? A) a thin blade just cuts a lot better, and B) when in the hell would I ever need a knife this big!?" Back in the drawer it went. I can't remember feeling under-knifed with the Tourist in my pocket, but I do remember feeling a bit silly pulling out the Endura to trim the itchy tag off my daughter's sweater or open an envelope.

To jackknife: I know you rave about the Classic, but have you ever toted an Executive? Some day I might consider downsizing even further to this one.
 
Very nice post jk :thumbup:

Mesa Verde is something very special to see, even though I didn't have the chance to see an obsidian flake being used to skin a deer.

Peter
 
This kind of posts always get me to think about my own development. I started off with knifes around 3 1/2, In periouds I have owned and used bigger lockbacks as the Schrade LB8 papa bear and even a huge tactical like the AFCK. I toted a Buck 307 wrangler for a while, and have made my best to like carrying a awerage sized trapper. I soo like the design and usefulness of a large trapper but they get difficult to carry in the pocket every day. I also tried to carry just a SAK classic and a little penknife under 3 inch. I always go back to a knife around nine cm with a blade not shorter than six cm. My absolut favorit size for a pocketknife has for all my life stayed aproximately the same size. Hows that for progress?

Bosse
 
To jackknife: I know you rave about the Classic, but have you ever toted an Executive? Some day I might consider downsizing even further to this one.

No, it's just a bit too big for a keyring, as I already have a small LED light, a Sears 4-way screwdriver and a P-38, and an aluminum capsule with arthritis meds on my ring. Karen is calling it my Bat-ring. Plus, the other thing I'm doing in addition to looking for easy to open knives, is I'm going back to carbon steel in my edc pocket knife. Steels like Case CV, Schrade's Old Timer 1095, and some of the old European stuff like old original Hen and Rooster or Bruckman stuff. I like stainless for fishing and fillet knives, but I just like the edge holding of CV and 1095 better.

I'd been using a Buck squire a friend had loaned me on an indefinate period, but recently gave it back as I just never bonded with it, and missed the thin scary sharp blade like an old Opinel or H&R. My old Bertram has blades that have that old flat grind right down to the edge like Old Timers had, and it gets hair whittling sharp and stays that way for a pretty good time.

And then I still have my old yella junior CV soddie around here someplace, for when the little keychain knife won't do.:D
 
That's exactly why they make SAKs that aren't bulky. Consider picking up an 84mm model, like the Tourist or the small Tinker. By the way, to a lot of folks, especially where I live now, there's no question of SAK or traditional - SAKs are traditional (at least the more basic old school models).
i have a couple of smaller saks in my collection and they are nice but what has made me getting a slippie in the first place was it has more personality to it if that makes sense:confused:

i have my doubts if the traditional slipjoints can ever compete with the sak for utility uses. they are just too multifunctional but theres something to the handfitted parts and natural materials that can be had on a slippie that i'm drawn to now. i just need to find a good compromise with the tool aspect that a sak provided and i would be happy(i think:foot::D)

Mark
 
i have a couple of smaller saks in my collection and they are nice but what has made me getting a slippie in the first place was it has more personality to it if that makes sense:confused:

i have my doubts if the traditional slipjoints can ever compete with the sak for utility uses. they are just too multifunctional but theres something to the handfitted parts and natural materials that can be had on a slippie that i'm drawn to now. i just need to find a good compromise with the tool aspect that a sak provided and i would be happy(i think:foot::D)

Mark


Well, to be fair, there's no way a traditional slippy is going to be as usefull as a sak when it comes to out and out utlitly.

But...

As I got older, I took a page from my old man's book. I took note of just how often I really needed those tools on a sak, vs how often I just needed a sharp edge to open some kind of a container. Mail, UPS package, plastic pack of something, piece of string or twine on trash day, stuff like that. The use for a sharp edge of some kind way over shadowed the need for a tool. The tool I needed the most was some kind of small screwdriver. Surprising what you can fix if you can just get a cover off and poke around in it. Once in a while a bottle opener.

I've had an on again and off again love affair with saks since I was a young man. But of late I just went back to carrying one of those .99 cent sears 4-way keychain screwdrivers and a P-38 on my keyring, and that did it. With the addition of two little keychain tools, I can take care of all of what I used to do with my old Wenger SI or tinker. That leaves me with the option of carrying a pocket knife that is a bettter edge holding knife than my sak. Plus I can take my keyring on an airplane with the 4-way and P-38. So far, I've used the P-38 as a screwdriver for both flat and phillips. My 4-way wouldn't fit where I had to take down my bathroom ceiling fan, so I used the P-38 to get in there to take out the phillips retaining screw so I could take the fan out to lube the bearing. Worked like a charm.

Try carrying a P-38 on your keyring, and team it up with the traditional pocket knife of your choice. You may be surprised that you don't miss your sak as much as you may think.

What did you use the saw for? You made mention you used it a lot. If it's for woods use, try using your knife to cut a V ring around what you want to cut off, and just break it at the stress line. Works in a pinch.

Good luck.

My name is Carl, and I'm a sak defector. There, I said it.
 
Well, to be fair, there's no way a traditional slippy is going to be as usefull as a sak when it comes to out and out utlitly.

But...

As I got older, I took a page from my old man's book. I took note of just how often I really needed those tools on a sak, vs how often I just needed a sharp edge to open some kind of a container. Mail, UPS package, plastic pack of something, piece of string or twine on trash day, stuff like that. The use for a sharp edge of some kind way over shadowed the need for a tool. The tool I needed the most was some kind of small screwdriver. Surprising what you can fix if you can just get a cover off and poke around in it. Once in a while a bottle opener.

I've had an on again and off again love affair with saks since I was a young man. But of late I just went back to carrying one of those .99 cent sears 4-way keychain screwdrivers and a P-38 on my keyring, and that did it. With the addition of two little keychain tools, I can take care of all of what I used to do with my old Wenger SI or tinker. That leaves me with the option of carrying a pocket knife that is a bettter edge holding knife than my sak. Plus I can take my keyring on an airplane with the 4-way and P-38. So far, I've used the P-38 as a screwdriver for both flat and phillips. My 4-way wouldn't fit where I had to take down my bathroom ceiling fan, so I used the P-38 to get in there to take out the phillips retaining screw so I could take the fan out to lube the bearing. Worked like a charm.

Try carrying a P-38 on your keyring, and team it up with the traditional pocket knife of your choice. You may be surprised that you don't miss your sak as much as you may think.

What did you use the saw for? You made mention you used it a lot. If it's for woods use, try using your knife to cut a V ring around what you want to cut off, and just break it at the stress line. Works in a pinch.

Good luck.

My name is Carl, and I'm a sak defector. There, I said it.
thanks for the advice Carl, i appreciate it. I do use the saw alot when camping and such but i have used it around the house as well. For instance i used it to make a bed frame support so the mattress was more firm. I've used it to fix a broken water pipe by cutting new pvc.

I did pick up a Coghlans two pack of P-38 can openers but was disappointed in their quality. The blade on them swung freely and seemed too dangerous to put in a pocket. I remember my Grandpa's P-38 he had from the military would stay closed and was a much better tool.

The 4 way screwdriver is very ironic as my Mom is cleaning out Grandma's house since she is moving into a carecenter now and comes across Grandpa's. I latched on to it and put it on my keychain saying how i was just reading about those and have it in my hand as i type this.
 
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