The Throwing Project (what the heck)

S

Smoke

Gold Member
Joined
Oct 14, 1998
Messages
2,554
I've been playing with knife throwing, something controversial in terms of combat. I'm not into the sport of knife throwing but the close range methods JAK and VV talk about in their tapes, and the Sayocs use as part of their system. Quite honestly, I prefer throwing a rock or tossing something in the bad guy's face. I'd consider knife throwing as the last option against a gunman on a rampage, the last option.I'd rather take cover, blend, and escape but if it's what you've got, you do what you can.

The knives I've used are an old Timberline El Diente (50/50 edge, ambi-thumbstud folder) and a generic Taiwan Balisong with a needlenose point (real thin 440 POS) with aluminum handles. Targets have been used books and a cardboard box filled with paper, hardcover books work real nice. Distance wise, I'm trying to work up to 10', 4' working pretty good for me. The Timberline took a lot of good stick before a small section of the tip broke off, the pivot pin taking the impact hard. The Balisong was just a knife of opportunity, definitely not the knife to throw as the pins don't like
the impact and the handles often close on impact. I've tried using rubber bands to hold the handles; the bands eventually broke so duct tape is recommended. Or just plain don't use a balisong. I have used a lightweight 5" FB and that just tears any paper target after awhile. Also, I've tried a kitchen carving knife with 9" blade and it easily bent at the tip. I stopped after it flexed 90'. I just think folders are more practical for my purposes.

My best throw is from the saber grip, just like a forehand slash. My backhand diagonal isn't as good as my horizontal backhand which is my best throw for stars/coins/disks. Ice pick grip is okay, it feels weak and stick when I'm very close to the target. Due to space restrictions, I haven't been able to do the underhand Riverboat Gambler style. The rear/walk away throw from Sonoran throwing is and has been the hardest. I've been able to get sticks
only once and just to get the motions I've been throwing a marker to see how I hit.
I'm trying to work my up to the rear throw by standing sideways to the target and throwing across from there, not as much power but some sticks. I've tried throwing ballpoint pens/pencils, all of which bounce off and one of which caved in the point.

Honestly, when up closer than 3' release points didn't matter at 4'+ it did and these knives are pretty light so I can release late.



[This message has been edited by Smoke (edited 04-19-2001).]
 
Smoke,

Throwing knives is fun, my dad and I used to do it a lot in our backyard at home. We threw tomahawks more though. They are far easier to stick when you vary the range and we got to where we could stick about 80% of the time out to about 35'.

I was never very good with a knife except at a static distance. I had a hard time controling the spin. Much easier with a 'hawk. I do love 'hawks. We threw axes some to. Major chunkage there.

A couple years ago a knife maker friend of mine gave me a throwing knife he had hammered out of steel rod. Basically a poinyard type blade coming out of round stock with a fan shaped pommel.

I have thrown this a lot close range, like you are talking about. I hold it diagonally across my open palm, fingers together, the knife lays from tip of index finger to heel of hand. My thumb holds it to the palm touching at the hilt.

I throw the knife overhand, like a baseball pitch, as hard as I can. It does not spin, but flys straight in. Using this method I can stick nearly every time and it goes in deeeeep. It works well to about 12'. I have also found that this method works with a variety of knives or screw drivers. I think this was fairly common in the west. My dad used to talk about it as a "bear slap" throw, but for some reason we never learned it. I never worked with it much until I was long time growed up.

I could never do the underhand gambler throw very well. Does it stick very hard? How do you hold the knife?

BTW have you ever seen the guy, communist Chinese ex-assasin I think, that throws sewing needles? He can put them right through plate glass
eek.gif
. I'd like to learn that!

------------------
Si Vis Pacern Parabellum
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
 
Crecy, I throw indoors and I risk sending the knife onto the floors and couches with gambler style. V. Vasiliev uses this style at the 1 turn range, JAK likes closer range and covers it more extensively.

Since it's folders I'm using there isn't the weight like in a Bowie or Arkansas Toothpick so a bit more energy is used. I use an underhand toss fingers end up pointing to the target when I release. I'm starting to play with VV and Masaaki Hatsumi state that fighting positions with knives are possible throwing positions.

Sometimes I play with Sayoc idea of using a thrown knife as a finisher to a downed opponent. I'm not a fan of spitting needles or sticking razors in my mouth. I have thrown screwdrivers for glasses and the actual blade of the Timberline when I disassembled it. They didn't stick well except at nose to nose distance. Possibly because I'm not using a lot of power. In fact, the more violent I throw I tend to stick only half as much relaxed.

I do like the idea of 'hawks but I can't place them in everyday carry. Kneeling throws are harder than it seems for me, where seated throws are fun. I also like the lunging backhand throw for shurikens/shakens. I've thought about using your basic dartboard for knife throws but don't have the $$ yet.
 
Hello Smoke,
I've been throwing since I was in my teens back in the 80's. One book that really hooked me on throwing was Mike Echanis's Knife fighting and throwing for combat. It detailed alot of power throwing techniques, as well as scooping a rock for throws, even rolling into a throw. I was lucky I lived in a rural area and had plenty of space for targets. Tuhon Sayoc is really good with throwing in every direction! If you get a chance attend a seminar and see his throwing demo, it is pretty awesome! Since it is winter here and my target got buried under three feet of snow, I've been throwing close range indoors. My target is cardboard taped together , about 8-10 inches thick. I throw small nails, and cheap clip blade knockoffs, balisongs are cool to throw also but they do close alot. Throwing in combat is a viable option if you are prepared to do it, and carry multiple blades or some projectile for throwing. Tuhon Sayoc, also likes to illustrate that the throwing can also be a distraction as well as a real "sticking" throw or fight finish.
Keep Throwing!
Steve
 
Janich's "Making it Stick" follows in the same vein as Tuhon Sayoc, by Airyu's description. There's a lot in there about grip type & the amount of drag (if any) that the grip imparts.

The last section of the tape's the best--shows improvised throwers (chisels, tire irons, pens, etc.), mainly meant as distractions. He even shows a drill where he chucks a pen at/near where the eye socket would be on a B-27, then transitions to a mini Glock & shoots.
 
Smoke - I've enjoyed throwing knives and oher things since I was a kid. We learned how to throw nails and screwdrivers, etc. from the older kids...just harmless fun though. Chuck 'em into the side of the barn and all.

Anyhow, indoors I find that the average big cardboard box is good enough for most throwing. I like the angle 1 and 2 line throws with either forward or reverse grip, and the underhand throw from the forward grip. Probably my favorite drill is just to work the throws into shadowboxing with the knife. Another way to get some throwing practice is to never hand the knife back to your partner after a disarm - throw it at him (lightly at first, but correctly) and he has to catch it (if he is smart, while also avoiding his body). Watch some of the tapes out of Russia and you will see this as a common practice.

Pete Kautz
 
Pete, I'll watch the RMA tapes again, I don't remember watching that drill. I'm a bit nervous to try a razor blade "flick" throw. I've found that the Spyderco pattern handle (Endura, Police) throws okay.
 
With regard to throwing and Tuhon Sayoc's different grips/throws, keep in mind that the template 'strikes', such as those in the left and right hand 3 of 9 template, are also projectiles. That is, the first 'move' in the right hand 3 of 9 template (which you can see demonstrated on the website) can also be a throw or projectile. Think of releasing whatever is in your hand during that move, etc.

The whip templates also teach proper throwing/projectile techniques.

Take care,

KMB
 
Hi Smoke

Dont take this the wrong way but get a bowie, not necessarily a big one but at least six inch blade and use that.

My reason...
I have JAKs video and he is right the bowie works better for riverboat style.

Try for a blade heavy one

Knifesmith

------------------
I like throwing knives, they're quiet.
 
disregard


[This message has been edited by Smoke (edited 04-03-2001).]
 
Tried seated throws and it was quite easy to hit the target. Fastest throws are from an open blade on your lap or a speed draw from a sheath. I'll try sitting at an angle from the target.

I'll try throwing a razor blade ala V. Vasiliev, which I'm a bit nervous about. Seems a good way to cut your self and shave your fingernail. I feel better about using the thumb flick throw for this one.

I forgot to mention that sometimes I'll throw as a warm up to a light workout to get the blood flowing. Probably wouldn't hurt to warm up though.

[This message has been edited by Smoke (edited 04-03-2001).]
 
disregard

[This message has been edited by Smoke (edited 04-10-2001).]
 
Got lucky and found a some plywood 12'x12' and 3/4" thick. Taped a face from a magazine ad, got to work, and found out throwing at wood can get loud. Results were the broken tip of the balisong and another chunk of tip off the 5" FB hunter.

Interestingly, even with broken tips you can get some good penetration. The small, spear blade I got from disassembly the folder did terribly and is more suited for OSS type work. The scalpel stuck in the wood again via a dart throw. Even though the balisong finally broke at the tip, it can still stab pretty well whereas the other knives can't.
 
Smoke you are crrraaaazzzzzyyyyy man
:-)

You sure that you dont want to try real throwers?

Knifesmith

------------------
I like throwing knives, they're quiet.
 
Oh yeah

I read somewhere that plywood is bad for throwing at because of the alternating layers

one of the best targets that I have used is an end piece of a log ( softwood )

Hey Smoke where do you work that you can throw and can you get me a job there?

Knifesmith

------------------
I like throwing knives, they're quiet.
 
I may try throwers in the future. However, I'll just practice hit and run and prone throwing for now.
 
Well the plywood target became powder and one of the pins of the hunter just got blown out. I did get the satisfaction of hitting the eye of the face target fairly consistently. For fun, one session I threw while watching Scream 3, just using the tv's light. Not Systema but hey. BTW, Neve Campbell's character probably watched Comtech ABC #1.

I've noticed that my throws actually corkscrew the majority of the time, which I can't explain. For the heck of it, I threw an SAK clone and the pins just get out of alignment with the plastic handles. Even with the broad blade, I only got one stick and that was in a paper target.

For the heck of it, I did some some stick and dagger drills and tended to hit the target lower with my throws. Doing Drawpoint and throwing didn't work out. Eddie Jafri briefly mentions throwing a dagger in one of his silat tapes against a knife attack. The way I see it, same as Drawpoint technique just with a saber grip.

I lucked out and got a new target. :P
A broken generic 4 1/2' x 2 1/2' table, from my teacher. So...I stood the table up on it's legs and was able to practice Gambler style. This target is very unforgiving, you a) miss, b) hit point first but no stick, and c) stick. No matter what happens, it is damn loud.

An interesting twist to one of JAK's drills, if I get a good hit or just throw hard, the table falls forward. To stop it, I've got to close the distance with my closest tool, my knifehand and prop it back up. Really works the lunge and footwork.
biggrin.gif


Crazy perhaps but at least I haven't thrown from a moving vehicle.
smile.gif


Hmm, that would be a good target, set up a mannequin in an car and work that accuracy. lol

[This message has been edited by Smoke (edited 04-21-2001).]
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top