The titanium frame lock

[not2sharp]

There are plenty of highly regarded titanium frame lock, starting with the Sebenza and thousands of imitators. Over the years we have seen the addition of over extention devices and lockbar inserts. Which raises the question for me of whether titanium is best suited for the role. Yes, the frames and resulting knives are much lighter, but are we sacrificing strength and durability to accomplish that?

A few ounces isn’t going to make or break a knife for us and we can always hollow out the frame to make it lighter. I also realize that titanium is softer and probably easier to machine, and that there may be other properties, such as lock up friction coefficients or corrosion resistance which might make it a better choice. Then again vintage and traditional knives were sucessfully built on steel frames and plenty of modern knives still use steel liners.

So let’s take a fresh look at our knives and discuss whether, despite the popularity, there may be real advantages in changing the paradigm back from titanium to full steel frames. Is titanium really a material upgrade over steel or just a popular trend?

N2s

 

[thebrain]

I imagine you will be getting many replies to this in the contrary to your supposition. Titanium is definitely not easier to machine and is greatly more expensive than a steel frame lock or almost any amount of steel used in any folding knife lock mechanism. Titanium is mostly used for its performance as a frame lock material minus the actual lock face, and that shortfall has been fixed by a lock bar insert. Titanium has some pretty unique properties that make it an ideal material for very specific uses, some of those properties are very advantageous for knifemakers looking to make folding knives. I would suggest that it is both a popular trend and a great leap in a materials upgrade.

 

[not2sharp]

I hear you but I still wonder what might happen if some designed a frame based on newer materials like LC200N. Should we assume that titanium is always superior?

N2s

 

[killgar]

On the impractical side-

"Titanium" sounds cool.

And, there was a time when titanium seemed exotic. Like some space-age material.


On the more practical side-

I like the feel/grip of bead-blasted titanium. On the other hand, stainless steel with a bead-blasted finish can still rust (and very likely will under certain conditions).

Below is the only framelock I've ever owned, Bradley Alias 1 (titanium handles). It was my work folder for several years and it saw a lot of use. I wore it clipped in my jeans pocket, my work was often hot and sweaty, and on many days my pants were wet with sweat. Bead-blasted steel handles would have rusted. The blade (S30V) originally had jimping on the spine above the thumb stud, but one of the reasons I removed it was because the rougher surfaces between the jimping would rust from sweat.

So I appreciate titanium for it's corrosion resistance.

Of course knifemakers can attach G10 or micarta handle scales onto smooth stainless steel handles to give the knife grip, but there is clearly something appealing about an all-metal knife. I know that's one of the main reasons I bought the Alias. I didn't need an all-metal framelock, I just wanted one.

In the end, I think that for most people on this forum, our knife choices are a combination of the practical and impractical. What we need, what we want, and what we think is cool. And like I said, titanium just seems cool.

 

[sv4]

On the impractical side-

"Titanium" sounds cool.

And, there was a time when titanium seemed exotic. Like some space-age material.


On the more practical side-

I like the feel/grip of bead-blasted titanium. On the other hand, stainless steel with a bead-blasted finish can still rust (and very likely will under certain conditions).

Below is the only framelock I've ever owned, Bradley Alias 1 (titanium handles). It was my work folder for several years and it saw a lot of use. I wore it clipped in my jeans pocket, my work was often hot and sweaty, and on many days my pants were wet with sweat. Bead-blasted steel handles would have rusted. The blade (S30V) originally had jimping on the spine above the thumb stud, but one of the reasons I removed it was because the rougher surfaces between the jimping would rust from sweat.

So I appreciate titanium for it's corrosion resistance.

Of course knifemakers can attach G10 or micarta handle scales onto smooth stainless steel handles to give the knife grip, but there is clearly something appealing about an all-metal knife. I know that's one of the main reasons I bought the Alias. I didn't need an all-metal framelock, I just wanted one.

In the end, I think that for most people on this forum, our knife choices are a combination of the practical and impractical. What we need, what we want, and what we think is cool. And like I said, titanium just seems cool.

Now, that’s a great looking user titanium frame lock

 

[norcalAF]

Yea buddy, these guys with swapped scales are fantastic!

 

[J. Doyle]

Titanium is mostly used for its performance as a frame lock material minus the actual lock face, and that shortfall has been fixed by a lock bar insert.

I'm curious what "shortfall" titanium has when it comes to the lock face?

 

[not2sharp]

I'm curious what "shortfall" titanium has when it comes to the lock face?

Titanium is softer than steel, so the area that comes into contact with the blade can wear over time leading to unwanted blade play. Many makers are now installing small steel plates on the lock bar face to reduce this occurence.

More here:

What is a lockbar insert? Knivesandtools explains.

The term ‘lockbar insert’ pops up more and more. But what is it and why would you want it on your knife? We will tell you more.

www.knivesandtools.com

N2s

 

[Mannlicher]

so far I have resisted the urge to buy a Ti frame lock knife. I just don't see enough advantage to justify the cost.

 

[J. Doyle]

Titanium is softer than steel, so the area that comes into contact with the blade can wear over time leading to unwanted blade play. Many makers are now installing small steel plates on the lock bar face to reduce this occurence.

More here:

What is a lockbar insert? Knivesandtools explains.

The term ‘lockbar insert’ pops up more and more. But what is it and why would you want it on your knife? We will tell you more.

www.knivesandtools.com

N2s

As I've said before, "solutions" to problems that don't exist.

Mostly marketing gimmicks.

A harder insert just puts more wear on the lock contact of the blade tang. All you're doing is taking potential wear from one place and redistributing it somewhere else.

It makes sense for the production industry I suppose because they can slap an insert on there and not have to fiddle with the interface to make sure it's not "sticky", time is money and all that.

I've seen hundreds of high end custom folders with titanium liner locks from way back in the day when no one bothered to sit around and overthink and overengineer things and they still lock solid with no appreciable wear. Some of them are decades old.

Only a poorly made/fit titanium lock will wear and slide over to the other liner.

Now makers jump on it too because it's a powerful marketing tool. Because the general public believes it is "better" or even "necessary". It isn't.

Titanium is better than steel for frame/liner locks in almost every possible way except for cost.

 

[BluegrassBrian]

Titanium is softer than steel, so the area that comes into contact with the blade can wear over time leading to unwanted blade play. Many makers are now installing small steel plates on the lock bar face to reduce this occurence.

More here:

What is a lockbar insert? Knivesandtools explains.

The term ‘lockbar insert’ pops up more and more. But what is it and why would you want it on your knife? We will tell you more.

www.knivesandtools.com

N2s

Or in the case of CRK, a 97 HRC ceramic detent-type ball..

 

[not2sharp]

so far I have resisted the urge to buy a Ti frame lock knife. I just don't see enough advantage to justify the cost.

They are nice knives. I own many and it’s one of my favorite formats. But, that doesn’t mean that they can’t be improved. As with other consumer product we are subject to trends and fads. We have gone through Tanto knives, Rambo knives and the wide use of “glass breakers” (skull crushers?), only to ask ourselves if those were the best designs for us. Is titanium just another fad that can be improved by using modern steels and machining? That is what I have asked us to discuss.

N2s

 

[not2sharp]

Something else for us to factor in; titanium is a weak electrical conductor, which means that it can help protect us from an inadvertent contact with a live circuit.

N2s

 

[ferider]

Titanium is softer than steel.

Actually it's not. Carbidized Ti is much harder than steel (HRC > 80).

There are two reasons for steel inserts (see also JD's post): (1) Gimmick and (2) requires less work/QC to align blade tang and lock bar. I.e., avoids lock stick with cheaper manufacturing.

A well working Ti on steel lock bar is a thing of beauty.

I like how Ti scales feel in hand.

 

[sv4]

As I've said before, "solutions" to problems that don't exist.

Mostly marketing gimmicks.

A harder insert just puts more wear on the lock contact of the blade tang. All you're doing is taking potential wear from one place and redistributing it somewhere else.

It makes sense for the production industry I suppose because they can slap an insert on there and not have to fiddle with the interface to make sure it's not "sticky", time is money and all that.

I've seen hundreds of high end custom folders with titanium liner locks from way back in the day when no one bothered to sit around and overthink and overengineer things and they still lock solid with no appreciable wear. Some of them are decades old.

Only a poorly made/fit titanium lock will wear and slide over to the other liner.

Now makers jump on it too because it's a powerful marketing tool. Because the general public believes it is "better" or even "necessary". It isn't.

Titanium is better than steel for frame/liner locks in almost every possible way except for cost.

Agreed. I have a couple of old Benchmade titanium framelocks, a 761 and a Subrosa. Neither have any steel lock bar inserts, just the titanium lock face against the steel tang. Both are still locking up fine after all these years.

 

[DMG]

I think about losing my magnacut sebenza in my yard and 10000 years from now, aliens finding it, cleaning it up and knowing that once, our extinct species made nice things.

 

[tinfoil hat timmy]

Is titanium just another fad that can be improved by using modern steels and machining?

N2s

EVERYTHING can be improved by modern materials and machining. it's only a matter of time.

so for now and for reasons I wont re mention posted above I think itll be tough to do

 

[Blues]

The feel in hand of bare titanium is superior to the feel in hand of bare steel, in my opinion. (Micarta or G-10 overlays on either can make a large difference.)

I can't imagine my use of a folder exceeding what titanium is capable of withstanding.

(Regardless of the "what if" scenarios posited by the Walter Mittys among us.)

 

[Skar]

Titanium is lighter and stronger than steel.
All steel frames are much heavier than titanium, about 4-5 ounces more in weight depending the knife.

Feeling in hand is much nicer as everyone seems to have touched on.
I don’t believe an all steel frame lock would give you any benefit or satisfaction in the knife.

Maybe a carbon steel frame lock could get a nice patina. If it could be done in the 4 ounce range that might look cool.
I don’t know how well that would sell though.

 

[Monofletch]