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the two MOST important things you need to have

Joined
Oct 30, 2009
Messages
116
I think that water and fire are the basest things you absolutely need to have when faces with the outdoors. With that said, what are the best/ rule of thumbs so to say, when finding water? Particularly in mountainous/rocky areas.

And secondly, how, if at all possible, can you get a fire started with only wet/living things to burn. What I mean by this is a lot of live pine trees and not much else. Things are wet because of the daily rain.

what would you use for tinder and kindling? More than that, all you have is a firesteel.

Now once that is established, is it possible to start a fire in the rain or during rainfall *say it has not stopped raining for two weeks. If so, how?
 
Where you find live trees or brush of some sorts, you should always be able to find some dead as well, just have to look hard.
 
And for that matter, pine burns pretty well. As dbltap45acp said, where there are living trees, you'll find dead pieces, too. Find the pieces with a lot of pitch on them, which should burn well. Cut into the wet wood to expose the dry portions, and use that. Also, you should be carrying dry tinder with you, just in case you have a situation such as you describe (PJCB's, anyone?). If you have those things, a fire steel is really all you need.

You'll find lots and lots of threads discussing just these things here on the W&SS forum. Have fun.
 
Most pines have dead twigs and branches low on the tree also you want to break dead branches off the trees first before you pick up wood off the ground. Also look for dried sap on the trunk of those pine trees. It may be raining but this is where you will find the dry wood IMO
 
I often ask my students:

"what is shelter? A roof or blanket?"
Most respond roof. You'd be surprised how often children say blanket....

The answer is both. You can die under a roof without a blanket and vice-versa.
So with this, a shelter being both a roof and a blanket, where does shelter start?

Clothing. And the gradient works up from basic debris for sleeping, to a debris hut, to a more long-term primitive shelter, up to hogan's, wigwams, etc....


I usually stay out of these, 'what are the two or three most important things' threads, as it varies. In a mediterranean climate, you can get by without a fire for a night or two. You can get by without food for a night or two... You can get by without a steel knife as well...


Again, it varies with the situation. In many ways, that which takes longest to process or hardest to prepare given the area should come earlier, like water harvesting. This takes time, and needs to be harvested in a variety of ways...

Essentially, the holy four are: shelter, water, food, fire...
For more long, long term, there would be more like seven: Shelter, water, food, fire, tools, medicine, and companionship...


Shelter, though, I believe, should always be on the list of most important. As it starts with what covers your skin. The first step.
 
With that said, what are the best/ rule of thumbs so to say, when finding water? Particularly in mountainous/rocky areas.

And secondly, how, if at all possible, can you get a fire started with only wet/living things to burn. What I mean by this is a lot of live pine trees and not much else. Things are wet because of the daily rain.

what would you use for tinder and kindling? More than that, all you have is a firesteel.

Now once that is established, is it possible to start a fire in the rain or during rainfall *say it has not stopped raining for two weeks. If so, how?

1. Regarding water, It can be harvested in a variety of ways. Dew collecting is one of my preferred. Using a rag or shirt, simply wake earlier and sponge up dew collecting. Watch for poisonous plants, watch for rocks near mines or cow pastures as they will have mineral buildup.

Plants house water. The stem of the thistle (any variety) when scraped and chewed like celery has alot of moisture in it. Birch bark and many others has sugary moisture inside. Succulents/Cacti like agave house alot as well...

Solar stills are efficient. Dig a hole about 3' in depth and in diameter. Place a cup in the hole, dead center. Surround with fresh greens, grasses, etc. Place a plastic sheet or tarp over it (dark works better) and weigh it in the center with a rock so it forms a cone that drops in the center of the cup. Seal circumference of plastic with dirt. Sun will cause plants and moisture in hole to condensate and drip into the cup. Nicely distilled water. You can even pee in the ground about it and have it distill pure. It will also collect rain from above.

Boiling snow if you must, but make sure it's really boiled.
Running streams, but make sure it's filtered and purified.

Always bring water to a rolling boil. Using rocks collected high and dry for rock boiling is good. Basalt works best for rock boiling.

2.Regarding wet wood. Yes, it is possible to get a fire. But you must think of it more like a smolder at first. In a rainy situation or any other for that matter, you do not want wood collected from the moist ground. I snap dead branches off trees. There you have the best dry wood around. Search for dry-semidry mosses.
Using bark to act as a roof for your fire will be best in the rain. I use tepee fires in rain with bark slabs to protect from water and wind. I also use heat reflective walls of rock or wood.
Drying the rest of your protected wood near the fire, once it is going is the next key...
Inner bark, under the outer bark can be found dry as well...
Placing rocks in your fire to bring up temp and add thermal mass is always good. Warm rocks have many uses! Especially as sleeping buddies when its cold.
Carry dry tinder in your pocket.

3. Regarding tinder. You want to make a tinder nest. I make mine with dry grasses on the outside, then dry bracken fern, then cattail down in the center. I also add pinch of rolled mugwort in the center (a secret! acts like lint but chars slowly and creates a large coal that won't burn through the nest as easily) if I have it. Make sure air can pass through the hole nest as you don't want to smother it as you blow it.

Mosses, fatwood (sappy pine bark usually found in the stumps of cut trees) thistle down, dry inner bark, dry bracken, cattail down, dry leaves, etc. can all be found in nature.

Lint, fabric material, jute twine, cotton balls (vaseline or no) can all be found on person or in pocket.

Most firesteel devotees match with fatwood, jute, or cotton...




Hope this helps!
 
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what would you use for tinder and kindling? More than that, all you have is a firesteel.

I never have just a firesteel. I keep Jute twine and a couple of slivers of fatwood in a Altoids kit.

I second (or third) the dead lower pine branches for wet weather fire starting.

I did this one today....

Pine branch, fire steel, knife, and a 1" piece of jute (I love this stuff) fluffed up to catch the sparks. Added in a few pine shavings.

100_1340.jpg


I am stingy with my Jute, but it catches sparks great.

100_1342.jpg


Added some larger pieces from the branch. This would easily keep going into a larger fire , If I had wanted it to.

100_1344.jpg
 
G'day learnme

.... With that said, what are the best/ rule of thumbs so to say, when finding water? Particularly in mountainous/rocky areas.
Water will naturally drain to the lowest point. Some things to consider include:
Are there any depressions, crevases etc that can act as collection points for rain water. Water can sometimes be found at the bottom of a rock face..
Filteringwater-1.jpg


Rockfacecairn.jpg


A length of thin tubbing can be used to access water at the bottom of a crevase. IIRC, Pict has mentioned in the past that he uses a large syringe to help suck the water up the tubbing.

Don't waste your urine. Urinate into the depression created for a solar still and collect the distilled water.

As well as solar stills, a large clear plastic bag will collect water when placed around the leaves on the branches of a live tree (called a transpiration bag). As the tree transpires and looses water from its leaves, the water vapour will condense inside the bag and can be collected that way.

Some insects rarely travel far from water (eg honey bees which have in the past led me to water). I'd suggest researching the water indicating insects in your area.

Herbivores need water daily. Well used game trails that lead downhill often will lead you to a watering spot. On a trip a couple of years ago, my camping partner & I followed this game trail...
Followingagametrail.jpg


that led us to this mountain spring...
Mountainspring.jpg






And secondly, how, if at all possible, can you get a fire started with only wet/living things to burn. What I mean by this is a lot of live pine trees and not much else. Things are wet because of the daily rain.

what would you use for tinder and kindling? More than that, all you have is a firesteel.

Now once that is established, is it possible to start a fire in the rain or during rainfall *say it has not stopped raining for two weeks. If so, how?

It's hard to suggest specific examples of natural tinder as I'm not familiar with the vegetation in your area.

With regards to kindling, as others have suggested if there are live plants in the area, there will almost certainly be dead branches (either still attached or deadfall). If they are still attached just break them off.

If present as deadfall, look at harvesting that part of the limb that is off the ground as it will be drier than the part of the limb lying on the ground.

Offthegroundkindling.jpg


In wild areas, there are always places that will hold dry kindling even when its been wet for a while. Locations to look for include:

Rock overhangs
Rockoverhang.jpg


Debris piles
debrispile2.jpg


Hollows at the base of trees
Treehollow3.jpg


The underside of hung up limbs
Hunguptree.jpg



To be continued....
 
Now once that is established, is it possible to start a fire in the rain or during rainfall *say it has not stopped raining for two weeks. If so, how?

As well as battoning wood to reach the drier center..
[youtube]Jkpn1_SaKvc[/youtube]


Drier wood for kindling can also be obtained by shaving a limb till you reach the drier inner wood
[youtube]je8CgtP1-jU[/youtube]


If you have a hatchet/axe then obviously this can be used to breakup limbs to access the drier center wood
[youtube]Kn-cyXPAjzg[/youtube]


IMO, the trick to lighting a fire in wet conditions lies is both in the amount and grades of kindling you collect that rages from as fine as you can get (think the thickness of the lead of a pencil to about finger thickness and lots of it)...
Gradesofkindling1-1.jpg



....and the fire lay you use that will maximise the heat generated by your firestarter/tinder.

Personally I use this fire lay to light fires with wet wood as I find it allows the firestarter/tinder to breath better from underneath than using bark.
Firelay-1.jpg



The whole process can be seen in this video.
[youtube]gqW0lmj6lzA[/youtube]


Remember to protect the tinder, kindling and fire from rain. Keep the wood off the ground and if you don't have a tarp, strips of bark can be used to form a roof over the kindling and fire...
Barkshingles.jpg



Once established, the heat of your fire can be used to dry wood for future use by stacking it off the ground and around your fire...
Dryingfirewood.jpg


A couple of simple tripods and a cross piece can be positioned near the fire to get larger pieces of wood off the ground to dry
Clothesdrier_firewoodairer.jpg



Hope this has helped



Kind regards
Mick
 
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Down here I can always find old birds nests and those critters always place them where it is somewhat protected. They make great tinder.Shred them up and toss a Vaslinated cotton wad under it and good to go.


For me the roof is the most important item. You have to have somewhere to build the fire.
The Indians in the glades used to build shelters with cypress poles, covered up with fresh cut wax myrtle boughs for mosquito repellent, and cover it up with a woven layer of cabbage palm fronds to make it rainproof.

We made one here out of bamboo, A frame style, and covered it up with bastone fronds and ferns.The bamboo re sprouted and the ferns grew to the Bamboo/Bastone and made a sort of cave out of it.
It got so thick I cant even find it any more.

Oh well. 3 AM. Bought a set of plans from uncle Johns for a 15 foot Jon boat.
Pretty nice plans for ? $25 or so. 13 pages.
Time to toss some teak in the table saw.
 
Thanks for the pics, Mick!

I usually follow animal tracks when I'm out. They lead you to all sorts of things, sit spots, water, tasty vegetation/fruit, and the occasional tick! You find yourself quickly understanding and learning more about the animal as well.

I read somewhere once, 'if you want to know an animal, learn what it eats'.... which I suppose proves, 'you are what you eat!':D

I was wondering, do you carry iodine or use some sort of purifying prior to drinking the water you collect? Or is it that clean?
I remember when I hiked the Sottish Highlands, I brought a MSR filter/pump as here in California, Giardia is abundant.
The locals however, just brought cups!
 
G'day PJ

The water in my local "playground" is still pristine.

I've been drinking untreated water in this area for over 20 years without ill effect :thumbup:

Bear in mind though, that I have yet to find evidence of anyone else having been through this area :D




Kind regards
Mick
 
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