The Ultimate Test

M

Matt B

Joined
Oct 16, 2000
Messages
118
Reading the thread about the metal cutting test inspired me to post the results of a test I did.

I've always been interested in one thing-the value of a weapon in life or death need. That is, like they were really used and you couldn't just buy another one easily. The edge has to stay sharp and withstand extreme force-it has to resist nicking, a nicked blade loses its structural integrity if the nick is big enough and if its is overly nicked loses effectiveness as a weapon. Furthermore, the weapon must resist bending and warping, as this also reduces effectiveness and straightening it in battle is not a good idea. This means the blade should either have a good enough spring temper to return to true or have a stiff enough temper to resist bending.

It put a variety of swords through rigorous steel on steel tests to find the weapon that would really keep its owner alive and return him to his family. These tests were not about what the style was "used" for-it was about full on no holds barred life and death usage. I tested about 30 swords and though I don't have my results ledger on me right now I do remember the following:

HI did fairly well overall. A Bura Katana, though, did pretty badly. Uncle Bill isn't kidding when he says Bura doesn't like to make swords. An older piece (Ram Dao) was one of the best swords I tested. (5 HI swords)

I tested a Paul Chen practical Katana and was extremely pleased, a very tough sword and well worth the money.

I was disappointed with Malayan weapons (3 Kris)

Chinese swords were in the middle/low end of the performance spectrum, though one sword in particular (the oldest one) was one of the best of all the pieces. It seems that the newer chinese swords (1880 and up) aren't all the good. (5 Jian, 1 Dao)

Indian swords did fairly well, one tulwar in particular was superb. (6 tulwar)

Persian swords did extremely well, one of them cut clear through another sword. (3 shamshir)

Burmese weapons were middle+ performers (2 Dha)

Javanese Daggers did pretty well, and showed very good cutting ability (2 keris)

I tested a cold steel battle axe, and it did well.

I also tested various other swords.

A mid 20th century Toledo made broadsword did quite well.

A Pakistani stainless steel claymore was a decent weapon, believe it or not.

A chinese-made katana from the mid 20th century was a decent performer.

A late WW2 Japanese Katana did poorly.

An african sword was slightly below average

A 20th century Thai knockoff of a katana was average overall.
 
Yeah, more detail please, where were they manufactured? Who was the maker of the kris? etc

Good stuff, but turn up the resolution.

Thanks!
Keith
 
Hi,

Most of the tested weapons were between 100 and 200 years old (I mostly collect older stuff) part of the test was to get an idea of who made the best swords

kindest regards
Matt
 
How did you test them?

Testing 30 pieces must have been quite a task.

n2s
 
I made sure that a particular piece could withstand full-on testing before I proceeded by getting an overall read on the temper and hardness with gentle methods. If a piece continued to fare well, it would proceed. The moment I saw any semblance of a nick or bend, a piece was set aside and testing on that piece was stopped. By this method, no pieces had anything above light damage similar to what one might already see on an antique blade.

kindest regards
Matt
 
Id be careful before drawing too many conclusions. Different swords meant for different things. eg. the keris isnt even supposed to cut, but only stab. Jians are also more thrusting swords rather than a cutting sword like a dao. Anyways lateral tests are great for pry bars, but with such an ecclectic set of swords tempered for different purposes, it really wont tell you too much. What wont break no matter what you do to it, doesnt necessarily mean itll be a better weapon. A crow bar is pretty tough, but well Id still prefer something else in a fight. An axe doesnt necessarily make a better straight razor just because its tougher than a bic. Anyways quality comparissons are hard to make with alot of antique ethnographic pieces. Not everyone could afford the best, and cheap blades float around as much or more than good ones. I have 4 swords same region, same age, but vastly different in quality. Its somewhat feasible in production pieces where it is hoped to have some quality control, but with such a variety in ethnographic pieces its always hard to tell if youre not getting the exception rather than the rule. A friend who wrote a book on Moro Swords, even after comparing literally thousands, still gets surprises. As he always tells me there are always exceptions. Anyways without doing a complete destructive test its hard to tell true limits. Just because it bent doesnt mean itd would break, and just because it didnt bend doesnt mean it wouldnt break with more force. And different folk like different things, one persons flaw is anothers good attribute. Anyways thats just my .02 cents
 
Wow, Matt! I dunno what you paid for all of those, but I could not bring myself to do such things to weapons/tools that may be irreplaceable.

I have 2 500year old spearheads (Ming dynasty, China) that I would never test like that. I have 100+ year old African and Javanese spears that are also retired.

I guess I just feel more comfortable extreme-testing modern stuff that I can readily replace.

Fed - I'm with you on typologies and their respective uses.


Keith

In Ferro Veritas
 
Yeah, after the Ming dynasty, Jian really weren't as well/carefully made. Same with Quing dynasty spears, jsut not as artfully made or skillfully wrought. Ming dynasty was the golden age of China...

Keith
 
Art

You havent missed any books, as far as I know at least Bob's book is the only one on the subject.
 
Matt,

I would like tro know about which Persian swords you used:

1) were they mechanical damascus or true damascus (wootz)?

2) were they the curved shamshir or older versions of striaght double edged Persian swords?

3) What kind of sword did they cut into half?

4) Did you hit them against a stationary target I mean blade or did both blades move toward each other?

5) Did you hit the target ina horizontal or vertical cut?

6) Did you use a draw cut or a slashing or hacking movement/ cut?

Regards,

Manoucher
 
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