The use of the word Dagger

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Burningcort

Joined
Dec 10, 2006
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303
OK...

let me start off with I used to be LEO....

I am not a lawyer.....

I always try to follow the law...

I want to carry a certian knife....

but I do not know if it is concidered a dagger...(Spyderco Temperance)

there are two states that I would EDC said knife....Texas,New Mexico

I live in Texas work in New Mexico (no longer LEO)

Texas law says no knife with a blade longer than 5.5"

Both states say no "Daggers"

so what is a dagger...
neither statute defines what a dagger acctually is

so I am wondering if any fixed knife is a dagger/dangerous weapon....

from my experience with LEO's from the inside I was given grief for carring small folders when I was a LEO if the other Officer thought/felt that the knife I had was scarry or offensive looking...

"If I stopped someone with that knife on them I would arrest them" kind of comments

especially any of my curved bladed knives...

CRKT BEARCLAW
SPYDERCO CIVILIAN
etc....

so what is a Dagger....
 
A dagger is a knife with sharpened edges on both sides. That's pretty much it.

Your Spydie temperance isn't a dagger, but I can imagine they don't like the looks of it.
 
eygen said:
A dagger is a knife with sharpened edges on both sides. That's pretty much it.

Your Spydie temperance isn't a dagger, but I can imagine they don't like the looks of it.
Click to expand...

I know that a dictionary defines a dagger as a sharpend knife on both edges...but what if just the top edge is only sharpened the first 1/2" is that still a dagger...that s why I am asking...

not to mention what is concidered "a dangerous weapon"

I person could be killed with a very small knife....

most places seem to be very vague on the written part of the law...
 
I am no expert but I always thought of a dagger as a knive with a spine up the middle and sharpened on both edges. Whatever the legal definition, it has always puzzled me why lawmakers are so afraid of them- they are no more dangerous than any other knife.
 
Some weapons are classified as "dangerous" as a means of increasing the penalties if you are caught with one during the commission of a crime.

Daggers are considered dangerous weapons in a lot of states. If you're a mugger and threaten someone with a small folding knife, that's bad. If you threaten someone with a "dagger," that's worse.

Remember also that the word dagger is intentionally undefined. And legal definitions do not necessarily match dictionary definitions. While knife experts have a specific definition of dagger (see above), the law leaves it open, often to mean any intimidating knife. That way your way scary-looking black-coated partially serrated blade, designed for outdoor use, can be labeled a dagger by a zealous state or district attorney looking to terrify a jury.

Note this rarely happens, really, but it's there. Generally, these types of slight-of-hand tricks are used when the police have totally got the guy, but he's weaseling out of the charge (witness won't testify, cop wasn't clear on the time of the arrest, etc.), so they hit him with a dangerous weapon charge to get him off the streets.

Why is a dagger listed? Well, it ain't alone. There is a history of adding trendy or popular weapons to lists like this, and they're in there for historical reasons (often bigoted).

Ready? The "dirk" has been on the law books since the late 19th Century. What's a dirk? It's a knife designed to get Irish immigrants off the streets when anti-Irish sentiment was high. Dagger? A knife carried by Italians or Sicilians when anti-Italian sentinment was high. Switchblades? In the 1940s and 1950s when "juvenile delinquency" was high (not limited, thankfully, to any race; just the hysteria of the time that every teenager was a gang member looking to use one). Butterflies/balisongs made the list in the 1980s.

And so on. I probably missed a couple. The idea is that as a non-pocket knife becomes popular in newspaper accounts or in movies, people are terrified by them and *they* pressure law makers to add the weapon to the list.

It's as realistic as gun accounts, where everything in the news is an AK-47 or an M-16 "machine gun."
 
thats my problem with it....watchful hit it on the head as I see it...but I still want other opinions..
 
I don't know if this helps much but, in Illinois the knife laws are pretty restrictive.That being said, I edc a Tops Cockpit Commander, and sometimes a Scorpion's Tail, and I've never had a LEO even remotely consider them "daggers" even though they're both fixed blades with dual edges.

I think it depends on the LEO, your attitude, and/or what state you live in.
 
eygen said:
A dagger is a knife with sharpened edges on both sides. That's pretty much it.

Your Spydie temperance isn't a dagger, but I can imagine they don't like the looks of it.
Click to expand...

its not anywhere near that simple.

Ca law makes no mention of the number of edges on a knife, yet lists dirk/dagger with other prohibited items.
in a general sense, ca considers a fixed blade knife a dirk/dagger.

if there is no further definition of an item within a statute, courts/attorneys are likely to refer to the most "commonly" used definition.
 
a dagger is any double edges blad (not sure if back cuts count)
BUT! if the cop doesnt like the knife its a dagger (being one or not)
most cops are good guys but some are just dicks and bend the rules to what suits them.
if i were you id be safe and carry a folder
 
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Knife is for cutting
Dagger is for stabbing

The double edge is better for penetration. That's why daggers are illegal.
 
ronmageddon said:
I don't know if this helps much but, in Illinois the knife laws are pretty restrictive.
Click to expand...
How so? With the exceptions of switchblades and autos, you can pretty much carry whatever knife you like concealed or not as long as you're doing it for a lawful purpose.

The dangerous weapons clauses don't kick in unless you commit a crime.
 
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