The Walker lock needs to step out of the past and into the present

TheCarbideRat

TheCarbideRat

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I've seen alot of static on the Walker lock, one problem i have seen which seems to make a gaping hole in the reputation as well as the operation and durability of the Walker is that the release pressures are much too LIGHT as they come from the factories. I have bent almost every liner lock I have to give me extra security, just knowing psychologically that the lock needs a relatively high amount of pressure in order to release is a great enhancement and this is of course not only psychological / confidence inspiring as it ALSO improves the overall performance of the lock. I am a man, and I don't care about stiff springs and as a matter of fact I prefer to need a high amount of pressure to release the liner lock of knife. I really think the makers have lost out and cost themselves so much in reputation by simply going with the very extremely light release pressures they seem to favor so much.

Buck up you guys and get with it! HIGHER liner lock release pressures are the way of the future mark my words! They are a HUGE improvement, so get with it, or explain why you won't IF YOU DARE! :cool: and anyone else what is your input.

EDIT: I have a suggestion to help you make a high pressure liner lock and no I am not involved with the commercial sale of knives whatsoever.
 
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I disagree. On light-use knives (The Spyderco Walker is a good example) a hard-to-release lock doesn't add strength as much as it makes it uncomfortable. Well-engineered locks, of any type, are more than enough for me and anyone. The focus of the lock, in this case, is more on reliability than brute strength-and a Walker lock by any maker worth their salt should deliver this in spades.

Also, do consider that there are women who need to operate locks as well ;) which you may have overlooked in a certain section of your post; what is, to you, a miserably weak spring strength may well be just perfect for somebody else. I don't agree that high spring tension on a Walker liner lock is necessarily "the way of the future"; that, in my opinion, is best achieved through a method which increases lock security without adversely affecting ergonomics. A good example is the Spyderco Gayle Bradley and EnZo folder-the thick lockbar and tiny cutout (in the case of the Spyderco, a mere beveling of the opposite liner) allow for a good secure,yet easy to release lock (this coming from a lefty, mind you).

This is, in my opinion, even better when the blade is thick, so there's more finger space; also, bear in mind that the above is mere personal opinion. I'm not going to force my personal specs on what makes a great lock on anyone.

Thanks :)
KI
 
True enough, but the Walker LL exists on almost every class of knife.

I confess I am not too sure how increased spring tension helps either strength or security-maybe reduce chances of accidental opening by hand flesh pressing against the lock? I think there are less "brute-force" ways around it, but if Rat likes them stiff, I'm not going to complain :)

Certainly a stronger (higher tension) lock inspires more confidence, but it usually also makes me curse mentally when trying to release it the first few times (Me and my weak thumbs :) )
 
wongKI said:
True enough, but the Walker LL exists on almost every class of knife.

I confess I am not too sure how increased spring tension helps either strength or security-maybe reduce chances of accidental opening by hand flesh pressing against the lock? I think there are less "brute-force" ways around it, but if Rat likes them stiff, I'm not going to complain :)

Certainly a stronger (higher tension) lock inspires more confidence, but it usually also makes me curse mentally when trying to release it the first few times (Me and my weak thumbs :) )
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I can release my millie everytime by gripping it hard and twisting the butt of the knife with my other hand in such a way that the whole knife rotates in my grip.
 
Doesn't make any difference to be stiffer in my experience. I have a couple knives that release their liner locks smoothly (Kershaw JYD and Mini Cyclone), and I can't get them to collapse with spine taps or trying to push them closed.

The lock is doing it's job in keeping the blade open, so it's good enough for me. Plus, I'd rather keep my thumbs from unnecessarily getting beat up and raw when I'm sitting around opening and closing my knives.
 
If mine release due solely to gripping the knife then that knife gets the modded spring tension or it goes into the no good knife box [no good]. I can post links to posts of liner lock fails on just about every popular knife out there, some of them here on BF some on other forums. If Emerson liner-locks are having issues then this is a serious defect because Emerson has the reputation of being among the top makers out there, I'm not disparaging his knives, I'm exploring the issues. I'll gladly armwrestle with Mr. Emerson any day. :D
True, a woman or small person will need a lighter lock so maybe only increase the pressures on some types of knives but yes I'm speaking mainly to the bigger and stronger knives out there, something like a mini griptilian no I don't see a need for a heavy pressure or HP lock.
 
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I prefer stiffer locks. I find the thin cutouts on most framelocks a bit disheartening. I think CRK nailed the double cutout which to my eye is thicker then most Striders or Hinderers.
 
I don't neccessarily mean "raw thumb" pressure either, just some increases and yes on some knives a very heavy amount, along with a more ergonomic thumb release area which would lessen the hamburger thumb syndrome, that itself is part of the design changes I have in mind.

And WongKi? thanks for your post, you talk about "well-engineered" -but- so am I.
 
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Most of the knives that I've used for long periods of time have been liner locks of one brand or another. The reason is simply that I tend to use a knife a lot over the course of a day - rarely for long periods of time - but pull it out -open -cut-pry-pound or gouge something and then--close and re-clip to a pocket. A "hard" lock annoys me - it's simply inconvenient and I remain unconvinced that hard to unlock knives are any stronger ? In general -this is probably why I prefer Walker locks to most frame locks - the framelocks are solid locking - just harder to unlock ( and there are exceptions for syre - my SNG is very well designed /executed in terms of unlocking.)
Because I grew up using "slippies" for decades (pretty much all we had at the time) - I've never had a liner lock fold under use ? Have I handled / seen unsafe liner locks ?
Buckets full. Take the Walker lock and execute it badly and you've got a real unsafe tool. What I find puzzling is I've repeatability encountered simply screamingly obvious bad locks - most are on bucket knives - but a fair number are on knives whose manufacturer's once made solid tools - sadly not today. Gotta say - if a liner locks loose and crappy at the start - it's not going to improve with use.
 
TheCarbideRat said:
If mine release due solely to gripping the knife then that knife gets the modded spring tension or it goes into the no good knife box [no good]. I can post links to posts of liner lock fails on just about every popular knife out there, some of them here on BF some on other forums. If Emerson liner-locks are having issues then this is a serious defect.
True, a woman or small person will need a lighter lock so maybe only increase the pressures on some types of knives but yes I'm speaking mainly to the bigger and stronger knives out there, something like a mini griptilian no I don't see a need for a heavy pressure or HP lock.
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Gripping alone doesn't release the lock. Part of my index finger is resting on the liner lock because of the cutout. So when the knife is twisted in my grip, it's the index finger contact that releases it when it's twisted.
 
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Why not - reduced tool life when every time the blade locks up the liner impacts the tang at higher force. It also does not increase the ultimate strength of the lock bar or the fact that the lock bar is fully exposed due to the basic design.
 
I think with a good HT on all contacting parts then wear would not be [EDIT: *much of*] a factor, correct me if i am wrong.
 
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singularity35 said:
Gripping alone doesn't release the lock. Part of my index finger is resting on the liner lock because of the cutout. So when the knife is twisted in my grip, it's the index finger contact that releases it when it's twisted.
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I have fat fingers. Not to make an ass out of either of us but I make the assumption you do not. ;)
 
singularity35 said:
I can release my millie everytime by gripping it hard and twisting the butt of the knife with my other hand in such a way that the whole knife rotates in my grip.
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I've had that happen. That's the main reason I like lockbacks. I've never had any lockback from a reputable company fail on me. Liner locks are another story.
 
TheCarbideRat said:
I think with a good HT on all contacting parts then wear would not be [EDIT: *much of*] a factor, correct me if i am wrong.
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If you use liners that are heat treatable, and then pay the expense of that additional operation. Reduces the economy of the liner lock design. You can only go so thick with the metal before you have a frame lock, and you can only go so thick at the bend in the lock bar and still make it usable. So there is a strength limit to a 'liner' lock. You can increase the production steps, the precision, and possibly the reliability, but it is still a liner lock, and at some point it would be more economical to use a different lock if you really need improvements.

From everything I've read, the liner lock cannot be a 'heavy duty' lock, they just can't be made beefy enough. Plenty of people like liner locks as they are, and there are plenty of alternatives if the user wants/needs the ability to handle higher static loads, higher impact forces, lower possibility of accidental disengagement, not as prone to damage from flicking/inertial opening, etc.

There are fans of friction folders, slipjoints, and folders with mechanisms of all kinds. Overselling the abilities of the liner lock has soured it to some - it is definitely my least favorite lock. It is still usable, but the performance window is not the same as other locks. And I think you can do very little to improve it before you justify just changing the knife design and lock.

There are many other locks that need relatively low force from the springs to hold tightly, but that is a fundamental difference in design, the direction of that force, and the method of interface.

Essentially, my position is that bending the lock bar may improve the liner lock for the end user, but if I want the manufacturers to improve the knife, I would prefer they went with a different lock altogether. IMO, it would be a better cost to performance alteration over changing the amount of bend, the liner material, the heat treatment, and the assembly protocol for marginal improvements, if any, that are accompanied by more difficult lock operation.
 
I went to school tonight >right on this thread.

You cleared alot of things up, and it's appreciated.
 
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