The WAVE

scdub

scdub

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Joined
May 29, 2004
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2,967
Hi Everybody!

I've handled, and almost purchased, several Emerson Commanders over the years. All of them incorporated the WAVE opening feature. I'll assume you're all familiar with the idea - if you aren't, check the Emerson website for details. In my opinion this is, to date, the best opening system around. It REALLY works well. If you haven't tried it, you should.

So as I said, I ALMOST bought an Emerson. The last time was while researching a knife to buy my Father. I did some searching around and came accross several not-so-great reviews of his knives. Two of the complaints that came up most frequently were 1) possible lock failure due, in part, to overly thin liners, and 2) a propensity for the pivot screw to loosen rapidly with use.

Having never owned one, I can't say if these are valid complaints or not, however the fact that I read them in several places gave me at least reasonable doubt. For the record I've read good reviews too.

Questions/thoughts: Does Mr. Emerson have a patent (I assume he does). If so, does it run out at some point? I ask this because other innovations (liner lock, frame lock, etc.) seem to be proprietary for a period of time and then, all of a sudden, everyone is making them. Also, I've heard that certain models of Spydercos lend themselves to modifications that would enable this feature. Has anyone tried this? Which ones work best and how did you do it? Lastly, is anyone else making knives with this feature "secretly"? There are a few knives from Darrel Ralph that look as if they might "Wave", and there's also a Smith and Wesson - I think it's the Hostage Rescue Team or some-such - that also looks as if it might.

Your thoughts?

SCDUB
 
The Cold Steel Ti-Lite has a similar wave option. I own the zytel handle version and really like it a lot. It has a good full bodied handle and a pretty reliable liner lock. I hear the Titanium handled ones are ever better. This is great especially if you are into the stilleto look.
As far as modding knives for this purpose, you could do it to most non-assisted knives. Spydercos work great because you only need a dremel tool and the top of the spyder hole forms a nice hook shape. But if you wanted you could mod any folder to that end. I had a kid (probably 10) come into the store and pull out a POS knife he bought at the flea market. He had modded it to do exactly what you are talking about, and all he had to work with was a file.
I know somebody had posted a website all about modding Spydercos for this purpose. You may want to search this forum and see if you could find it.
 
emerson holds the patent for the wave feature, and NO, it's not going to run out anytime soon. Do a search on the forums here and you can find directions on how to modify a spyderco to have a "wave like" feature that will open the knife in the same way. you may see some other brand knives out there with something that looks exactly like the emerson wave, but most of these knives are cheap crap made overseas and completly infringes on emerson patent.

I own several emersons and carry a karambit everyday while onduty and either a commander or a mini CQC7 off duty. They all have the wave and they all get used on a daily basis. The commander has been beaten and abused far beyond what an EDC knife should ever be forced to do. Yes the pivot screw does loosen up over time, normally it gets loose about once a week, but a half turn with a thumb nail tightens it right up. If I was ever motovated to, I could just take the screw out and put a drop of some thread locker on it and solve the problem... but a once a week turn with my thumb nail has never bothered me. As far as the locks go, I have read here that you should never twist a liner lock cause it will cause the lock to fail and injure you... well it's a good thing I didn't read that a long time ago cause I would never have done half the stuff I've done with the commander. I've twisted, pryed and pushed with the blade and never has the lock loosened up or the liner shifted over to the far side. Has it happened? Well yea I guess to other guys it has, but not to me. But I have also heard that anyone who has ever sent their knife back to emerson for a liner problem has gotten it fixed right away and even stripped and cleaned with new parts free of charge. try that with a spyderco.
I like emerson designs and his knives, I just wish some of his "special designs" were made standard designs so I could actually get one. I love the HMMV-k but I didn't order one in the small time frame need ed to reserve one. If that was a stock knife I'd buy it tommorow.
Tell ya what, buy the emerson, if you don't like it, send it to me, I'll give it a good home with lots of other little emersons to play with. :D
 
Any tip-up folder with guard-like protrusions at the tang will "wave" more or less. The Darrel Ralph flippers would work, but you've got to pull the knife clear of your pocket and them move it down against the seam, since these knives are tip-down. The Ti-Lite does it real well. I showed it to Ernie Emerson at a knife show and he laughed. The Wave itself started out as a bladecatcher, which is a kind of guard itself.

Some years ago Kershaw came out with the Talon, a titanium-handled hawksbill. One model had a "bottle opener" hook where the Emerson knives have their wave, and it worked exactly the same.

I got a Commander myself, and the d@mn lock was so strong, I needed two hands to close it. It's still pretty stiff, and I find it hard to believe it would ever fail. :D The pivot does not loosen, either, but nyresq is right, a little Loc-tite willl take care of that, if it matters to you. This seeming defect actually gives you control over how tight you want your blade to be.

I've only had a few Emersons, because they are mostly more self-defense oriented than I am, but I've been pretty impressed with the ones I've owned and handled.
 
There are two Emerson frame locks coming out.....

HD-7 - Heavy Duty Seven - frame lock version of the CQC-7. Wave of course.

CQC-12 3.96" blade, .125" frame lock (just like the HD-7), and of course Wave.

Both are realllllllllllly cool knives!

HD-7 should be out in a week or two, and the CQC-12 a few weeks after that.
 
of course I'm going to chirp in on this...
My mini cqc-7b had the loosening problem when I first got it, it wasn't somehting that really bothered me. I decided to send it in for its first sharpening a little over a month ago, and when returned the problem had disappeared. (I assume the fixed it, loctite or most likely) Over a month of constant use and wave opening and it has yet to loosen once. I have recently procured a full size commander and there is no problem with the screw at all.

On the liners? My mini has been through a metal door, full force, no problem with the liner. And as Esav said, the lock on the commander is too damn strong. At night when I'm sitting around I'll work the lock to loosen it up a little, plus I put a little 3-in-one on it. The commander hasn't really had its trial yet, but I will report on it as soon as it does.

I would say the wave is great, fastest way, it can just be too much fun...
 
I have a Commander, and have something of a love/hate feeling toward this knife. I have noticed both of the problems that you are concerned with. The loosening of the pivot screw is very minor to me, as a fw drops of thread locker fix it. Use the blue stuff as you can take it apart again without any special treatment.

As for the lock, well that is a major issue for me. My knife is an older one (a 2000) and have slowly watched as the lockup went from great out of the box, to non existant at the moment. This is after some very minor use, and no abuse at all. I sent the knife back to Emerson about a week ago and am waiting for it to come back sometime next week. Emerson CS has been very good to me, I did a bit of modification to the blade of my knife and they are still fixing it without problem. In fact when I called them they told me it was my knife so I could do whatever I wanted with it. I doubt many other companies would give that level of service. As to whether the problem will be fixed for good or not I still have to see. I have heard reports of knives coming back and the problem developing again at a later date.

That said, it also seems to me that the newer knives are a bit better on this respect. I have been hearing a lot less reports of bad locks than I did a few years back. Maybe the problem was fixed in some design changes, hopefully. If my Commander isn't fixed I will probably end up buying a new one just hoping that the problems have in deed been worked out. Emerson designs some great knives, and it would be a shame if I couldn't use them.

I would say if one of the designs really suites you then go ahaead and buy it. If any lock problems do develop Emerson will take care of you no questions asked. If you are just wanting a wave like feature but non of his designs seem really great to you, then as mentioned other choices do exist, although they might not technically be a Waved knife.
 
As for lockup issues... ErikD is right -- send it.

As for the pivot... get some teflon tape. Put 2-3 wraps around the pivot... no problems again. When you disassemble, just pick the bits of teflon tape off. It provides enough resistance to keep the pivot in place without the overkill of Loctite.

-j
 
Guys, i just don't get it :)

If a screw is loose on any of my stuff, i tighten it, i will never consider that to be QC issue.
I don't even think about it

Knives aren't sealed units, they get carried around, banged, shakes around in cars, whatever.
Any screw that isn't loc-tite'd to hell will shake loose.

I love that i can easily tinker with any of my Emerson knives, from my six to my commanders...

:)
 
uh lotsa knives will loosen at the pivot, WTF is the big deal about that?? a nickles worth of loctite or teflon tape will fix that, had to do it with spyderco/benchmade/MT/kershaw/gerber/buck, heck just about ANY knife w/a screw in pivot will loosen up on ya......................thats not a defect thats life lol.
 
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