The will to survive

Joined
Nov 29, 1999
Messages
632
I am a firm believer that survival is broken down as follows:

80% will
10% knowledge
10% equipment

When I entered into the USAF Survival Tech school which lasted 6 months (along with a second 6 months learning to teach to others = total 12 months of training before carrying a crew alone) I had no idea what to expect. We had a 70% attrition rate the first 6 months and lost another 5% during the final 6 months (these individual had the will to survive but couldn't teach). It was interesting to see the strongest students that could do the most pull ups, sit ups, push ups, and run the fastest were the first to ring the bell and leave training.

I learned early on that physically ability was not the key...your mental attitude was. This became extremely important when I went through the POW training (instrutors in training experience training as real as it could get...the students we ran through our POW camps had no idea how easy they had it). I was put through two near drowning, put unconcious, made hypothermic two times, and beaten on. My mental attitude and will to survive was the key to not divulging information.

This will was also very important on my first field trip which lasted 22 days...in freezing temperatures and waist high snow. I went 5 days and 4 nights with no food or sleep...during this time our tasks were tremendous. I lost 25 pounds during that trip. Our element had 11 and we finished with 3.

My point is, without these (and many others) experiences I may have never understood how far my will to survive would allow me to go. In addition, my training allows me to teach from the heart...I HAVE SURVIVED in every environment in the world...learning the hardships and victories of each.

The will to survive is so important. Why does one individual put a bullet in their head (after a crash landing on a frozen lake) when he was just 75 yards away from a temperate forest with all the resources to meet his needs...why does another person travel 1100 miles through some of the harshest environmenst in the world to attain freedom. Will, Will, Will to survive.

At ANEW:
-Our programs provide comprehensive level skills in the art of survival (knowledge)
-Our programs discuss and show you the different types of equipment you might use in a survival setting (manmade and natural)
-Finally, our programs SHOW YOU that YOU have the WILL to survive (this is something that can't be taught in a book...you must learn this through experience and increased self-confidence, self-relience, and self-esteem). BTW we don't do anything like I explained above (unless you want it :>))

To learn survival you must read it, watch it, and attend a reputable program to bring it all together. But most important...push your limits and develop your will. :>)

Any comments or questions on this post (the will to survive) are welcome.

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Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?

 
disregard.

[This message has been edited by jrf (edited 12-26-2000).]
 
I think there's a nice little tirck in this formula...

"80% will' can mean "preparation." It means taking the time to learn and practice the skills that will save you in a survival situation. It takes willpower to stick to your guns and learn the knowledge so that any survival situation will be a easier and less distressing.

The other part of the will equation is as Greg says: keeping going and keeping focused in spite of intense fatigue and lack of sleep. Many that I know won't go on a long expeditions with parties unknown unless they take them out on a short trip and deprive them of sleep for 24-36 hours, so they can see how the others will behave when fatigued and stressed. Many people just lose it and get pissy, irrational, and downright dangerous to everyone else in their party.


Peace,

Brian.
 
Yes! I agree. Great points. the will is directly impacted by prior learnings, self-esteem, physical strength, etc.

As far as why we lost the strongest first--in our training...I think they had never been broke before and it pushed them over the edge. I had been broken before (more than I care to say) and for me it meant getting back up on the horse...

------------------
Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?

 
deleted.

[This message has been edited by jrf (edited 12-26-2000).]
 
It seems to me that if you are ever in *really* deep trouble, the best thing you can possibly say to yourself is, "I've done this before."

That's why it is just generally good to push the corners of your comfort zone.

And that's probably why people who are happy in a narrow comfort zone think some of us are crazy. :-)
 
The story of Hugh Glass is a perfect one on the will to survive. Revenge kept him alive after being severely mauled by a Grizzly and then left for dead and buried alive! He crawled on his belly for most of 200 miles or more. Great true story of will!

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www.simonichknives.com
 
disregard.

[This message has been edited by jrf (edited 12-26-2000).]
 
88 days. Yuck. Several of my instructors use that story as a motivational tool.

I spent several days in a small raft off of the Oregon coast in the 80's. the swells were about 10 feet and the life raft I was in rode the waves...up and down...up and down. I tried everything to avoid shark chumming. I looked at a spot on the horizon, etc. etc. to no avail. After several hours I began to hurl. I pucked until I could taste my own toe jam in the back of my throat. It started to settle down after about 18 hours. It was then that a friend of mine, on the raft, offered me a dip of coppenhagen. I was addicted and well...if you have ever been addicted to something you'll understand when I said...thank you and put a big dip between my cheek and gums. It felt good....for about 1 minute. I hurled and hurled and hurled again. Note: I no longer chew. Later, I ate some sardines that he had...am I stupid. Heck with friends like that, who needs enemies. Later I learned he had snuck a scoplamine patch on (it helps prevent motion sickness).

Finally the USCG came to pick us up. I was so wiped out after days of throwing up on the water...guess where they dropped the forest penetrator...100 yards away...I had to swim to it. Ugghhh.

It was an experience I'll never forget. I was in training but once again it resembled the real thing. I hate open water survival...I hate throwing up....I can't imagine 88 days. I know you are suppose to desensitize after several days but...I think adrift would be a great motivational book to read.

If you'd like to read more about my training...go to http://www.ssurvival.com/MyStory.htm

Best to all

------------------
Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?

 
I agree totally with the "WILL" part being the greatest single entity. But I ask all of you to look again at the percentage breakdown Greg listed.

I question whether knowledge and equipment should be equal???

If your knowledge base is GREATER, doesn't it make sense for you to need less equipment?

Brian and Walks Slowly said- prepare, practice and know that you have performed the tasks before. This will add to your WILL and KNOWLEDGE and lead me to believe that I need LESS equipment. I should be able to make the items I need and collect whatever I can from the environment as I go along. Whatever equipment I do happen to have along just makes it easier for me.
smile.gif


Comments please!
smile.gif


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Plainsman :)
primitiveguy@hotmail.com


 
In my uneducated opinion, 'will' and 'motivation' are the hardest things in the world to teach. Sure you can do it, but I believe it's something you acquire over a period of time, hell, it may even be hereditary. The student must be willing to push himself to learn.

Small goal success leads to confidence and helps to build will and motivation, but very damn few are willing to push the envelope of their comfort zone.

From what I've seen, 'will' and motivation under adverse conditions are directly related to fear. If someone uses fear as a driving force instead of a hindrance then 'will' and motivation are greatly increased in the individual.

One last thing, proving something to yourself is by far the better 'will' builder than proving something to others. Sure, thug gang members will die for their 'cause' but they do it from a need of proving themselves to others and a need for power and authority - a result of a lack of self confidence and personal motivation. Put 'em in a hard and lonely survival situation and they fold.

No one can teach you 'will' and 'motivation' unless you are willing to be taught.- Jeff

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Randall's Adventure & Training
jeff@jungletraining.com

 
Jeff,

I agree but...I don't believe you can teach someone the will to survive. However, as an instructor I can show them they have it. Sometimes this takes quick thinking to turn a bad situation into a positive outcome. (people don't realize all of the activity that goes on behind the scenes in one of our programs).

Our programs are progressive. Students begin from simple to complex and thus by the end of the trip they have gone further then they ever imagined they could have. It's like climbing a ladder. We do it one step at a time.

At our Ropes Course...people off the bus look at the tall towers and say..."You'll never get me up there" but by the end of the trip everyone of them does the high obstacles. We build up to them by advancing from simple to complex and developing that trust relationship.

The same is true of showing individuals their will of survival....it takes time to develop the foundation but if done right the "will" that they always had will shine.

------------------
Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?


[This message has been edited by Greg Davenport (edited 04 December 1999).]
 
Well said, Jeff! Reminds mr of a saying I heard:

"Fear makes a wonderful slave, but a terrible master."

And you nicely cover the issue of internal v. external motivation. You're so right there: if someone is motivated externally, then when they are alone, they will have no proper inspiration to persevere.

It's why I believe that survival is such a fantastic self-development/betterment medium.

Best,

Brian.
 
Greg,

I like how you state this -- showing people what they already have inside them, but haven't been able to "access" before.

One time I, my brother, and three friends were forced to bivy in dome tents at the edge of a sheer 2000 drop, with wind gusts kicking in at 60-70 MPH, all night. We couldn't stake down the tents because we were on rock above the treeline. The winds threatened to blow us over the cliff, and we laid rock walls all around and on the edges of the tents to hold them down -- they still were being blown almost flat against even with three rods.

This was after a climb down about 500 feet of cliffs/ledges, and after I had slid down the glacier onto the rocks below, chipping a bone in my hip (the rocks stopped me from going over the 2000 foot drop). For the next 6 months, everytime I rolled onto my right side in sleep I was jolted awake by a shooting pain (a nerve was caught against the chip).

We were all exhausted, and the next morning, after thanking God that snow, the wind, or the big Griz who lived right there by the cliff didn't get us, we realized we couldn't go down further, so, we turned around, and spent all day going back up the up the damn glacier and back up the damn cliffs and ledges (yes, they were now affectionately called "damn"), and were so exhausted, we were walking like drunks. But we worked damn well as a team in spite of the exhaustion. When one person was losing it a little, somebody else was being strong. We always supported each other like that. And we learned much about ourselves, good and bad. It teaches you what you need to work on...

I had to go for almost two weeks more with the chipped hip bone, with a huge pack on my back, and I learned much about my ability to control pain, or not control it sometimes. Where did the willpower come from? I think *we all have it,* it's just a matter of getting into a situation that forces us to access it in a productive way...

Anyway, great topic!

Best,

Brian.
 
It is amazing at what individuals can do when they have no one to rely on but themselves. You learned a lot about yourself that trip, didn't you. It made you a better person and increased your inner strenght. the next time you faced an obstacle it was easier to push yourself....

Great story. Anyone else got a story they'd like to tell. One of trials and increased self-awareness and self-reliance. I hope so? Otherwise, I'll have to fill the pages with my boring lies. :>)

------------------
Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?

 
One of the things I always do when instructing any type highangle ropes course is to make the student a part of the complete process. I've seen many confidence courses where students are told, "It's safe," helped to harness up, helped to clip in, helped to do everything. They never understand why it's safe, even though they successfully completed the course without hurting themselves.

Greg, I'm not saying this is your course at all, but your mention of ropes course brought this to mind since I've seen a lot of fools instructing courses on the sides of rock cliffs.

What we do is teach the student proper rigging and SRT techniques on the ground. Then we let them rig their own ascent / descent while a qualified person oversees and corrects the process - Everything from harness work to rigging the main and belay lines. Usually the first pitch is not over 10 foot, then they're drastically graduated to much higher pitches to keep the adrenaline flowing and the mind sharp.

Regardless of what any student will tell you they ALWAYS trust themselves more than they trust an instructor. Just get one 250 feet up a rope and ask him to do a changeover with you instructing him on another line beside him and see what happens, they'll try everyway in the world to do it wrong because it 'feels safer.'

My point is this; confidence and will in extreme situations are built through a complete knowledge of your goal and the fear of your goal working in concert. The fear keeps you sharp while the knowledge makes it possible. Anyone who doesn't possess either, may do some 'cool' things but they usually end up splattered on the ground before too long. - Jeff

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Randall's Adventure & Training
jeff@jungletraining.com

 
Greg-
I just read the article about your training. ROTFLMAO. The story about the rock climbing trip with your brother is clasic.
biggrin.gif
Now I *have* to buy your book.

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Megafolder Fans Unite!

Mike Melone

"Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle. " Psalm 144:1
"One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them." Thomas Jefferson




[This message has been edited by MM (edited 04 December 1999).]
 
Greg,

Yes, I did learn a lot about myself that trip! Some of it was very ucomfortable knowledge: where my weak spots were. The great thing about survival is that when you are tried and tested, that little learned behavior we call "denial" usually gets blasted away and you are faced with a very raw and accurate picture of yourself, like it or not. The best thing one can do is not not harshly judge yourself, but use it to learn and improve.

See my thread on "Scariest Wilderness Experiences" for other people's stories. I'll cross refernce this on that thread, too...

Best,

Brian.
 
Viktor Frankl was a Jewish man who spent time in the Nazi concentration camps during WW2. He writes about this in his book called "A Man's Search For Meaning"

One part of the text struck me as a moment of how he acknowledged his inner resources. They were all stipped down. All clothes, rings, hats, and any possesions they had were taken. They were completely shaved (not one hair left on a body). As he stood there amoung many but yet alone...he realized that all he had was his nakedness, his mind, and his faith. It was these three things that helped him survive the unsurvivable. He survived over 3 years in some of the harshest conditions imaginable.

In his book, Viktor writes how apparent it was when a fellow prisoner had given up their will to survive. He would wake up in AM and refuse to work despite reduced food and previledge. he would smoke his months rations of cigerettes...seeking immediate satisfaction. Viktor and his cellmates knew that within two days that person would be dead...HE HAD LOST HIS WILL TO SURVIVE.

Two examples of groups who had a "will to survive" that took them beyond their pre-conceived limits are: The Donner party, the soccer team in the Andes.

Tom MacCandles (I think that was his name) from the story "into the wild" had a drive to learn more and a will to live but he is a fine example of someone who needed more education and training. if he'd of had it he'd have survived. He could have navigated outo there...easily and would not have relied so heavily on those alaskan potatoes (a debate still exists on the effect the seeds had on him starving to death).

All are important: will, education, equipment.

MM...what does ROTFLMAO mean?

Best

------------------
Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?

 
Jeff, A ropes course is not what you think. It is a series of initiatives, low ropes obstacles, and high ropes obstacles.

The initiatives and low ropes obstacles develop communication, teamwork, leadership, followship, and trust. We have 50+ options in this category.

The high ropes obstacles (it takes to much space to explain these) develop self-esteem, confidence, overcomming fear, self-reliance, trust, etc. We have over 15 of these different obstacles (you mentioned two areas... a rock climbing wall and a reppel tower) and all are 35 feet up. All have a belay system and all students learn how to belay each other. In order for this to happen we have to teach them how to do it. We are injury free.

Our course is located on 8 of my 11 acres. We have 3 - 30 foot fire circles with C-9 parachute canopies overhead (on quad pods) and improvised wood benches below. We also have 500 square foot GP medium tents that we use. And yes it costs lots of $$$$ to build and run one of these courses.

In addition, this program pushes people far beyond their pre-conceived limits...what makes us unique is we have psychotherapists, medical providers, Nurses, SAR team members, and a few yahoos on staff to help facilitate the change in both group and individual counseling (when needed). Most programs are ran by yahoos who have no formal training in how to facilitate change...they just know how to do the obstacle (once again it comes down to whether a program can deliver results or is the instructor simply a guide). Our course is one of the largest courses in the US. And our staff allows us to provide one of the best management, leadership, and self-esteem programs in the United States.

I'll post some pics of the Ropes course soon. A lot of large companies have attended our Management/Ropes programs. Recently, Microsoft sent 35 of its upper mgmt team.

------------------
Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?

[This message has been edited by Greg Davenport (edited 04 December 1999).]
 
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