The Wonderful World of Belts

[Jebadiah_Smith]

I havent been posting here much for the past few weeks. Ive been busy playing with my new grinder and exploring the wonderful world of belts.

I bought a Grizzly G1015 buffer/sander. Its no KMG but I was pleasantly suprised with it and its all that I need. The base wobbled at first, so I had to put some shims under it when I mounted it to its base. It wasnt tracking great at first and after trying every other way to fix this, I had to file the edges of the rubber contact wheel. It now tracks beautifully. The only problem I have still is tension, which is decent but not quite great.

I was suprised to find many modifications for this grinder, including a tension upgrade.

I mounted it on a base, slapped some cinder blocks on a stick between the bases legs, and was ready to slap some belts on her.

My first belt was the scotch brite medium. Wonderful. I used it to put a perfect satin finish on my persian fighter with only a couple of strokes. I recomend these to anyone. The only problem I encountered was some abrasive on the backs of the belts which tore up the graphite slab on my platen.

I bought some 3M ceramic belts for profiling and rough grinding. These are really great, and in my opinion well worth the price. I have profiled several knives on a single belt, and it still has lots of yellow grit left.

The rest of my grits are 3M trizact CF. They seem decent but have only used the higher grits, to sharpen my khuk. Worked well enough.

Khukuri Monster showed me his homemade leather belt. Used with white rouge, it gave a perfect mirror polish and a great polished edge. These are really great.

After encountering the leather belt, I slapped some rouge on my felt belt and tested it out. The felt seemed to work just as well as the leather, for alot lower price.

Yes, I am pretty happy with my belts. But theres one bad apple in every bunch... for me that was my cork belt.

The god forsaken, plain cork belt. How I hate you. Not really all that much for me to complain about, but I will anyways.

I was expecting something like whats on a cork board, except in nifty belt form! Unfortunately, when I pulled the ugly bastid from my belt box, I was shocked and appalled. Its surface was rough and bumpy, and its beady little eyes seemed to laugh at me.

"You just blew $7.80 on me stupid!"

I foolishly tried to soak it in water to even it up. I posted a question about them on the shop talk forum and was suprised to have a couple people tell me to throw the unholy thing away and cut my losses. I learned that you have to let the belts run for 10 minutes while you push a piece of steel into them. People love corked belts, but not plain ones. I get the impression that any rouge on the belt will float around on the plain belt and do no cutting. People only put rouge on the gritted ones as a lubricant.

In the belts defense, I havent tried it. Mainly because I have been warned, dont want my shop covered in a layer of cork dust, and dont want to waste time/rouge.

Any advice on belts from your ventures into the Wonderful World of Belts?

Anyone want to buy a cork belt?

 

[Khukuri Monster]

I want to mention that the leather belt he mentions I made for $10.50 (whereas they normally cost something like $35)

I bought a 2 x 72" leather strip from Jantz Supply and some leather cement. I tapered about 1.5" of it on both ends, and glued it together. The tapering was so there was less of a bump where it overlaps. Really simple, and effective, and cheap! (Actually cheaper than a felt belt, which costs $16 or so, and probably much more durable)

One might be worried that since you have to overlap the 72" belt that it won't be long enough to fit on the grinder. But this isn't the case! The leather is actually really stretchy and it will stretch the extra few inches. Over time it will loosen some more, so there is no problem.

One funny thing: I noticed that the aluminum drive wheel and tracking wheel on my KMG now have a mirror polish due to the leather running over them. I
don't think this is a problem or anything.

heh, and I wasted money on a plain cork belt too. I should have let JS test it out first.

 

[Jebadiah_Smith]

I should have let JS test it out first.

Yeah, especially since you already tested the jumbo sword forge and african blackwood. Not to mention the tombstone anvil and buffing wheels on a grinder...



Oh yeah, I forgot the uncoated cloth belts.

 

[Thomas Linton]

Thanks for the useful info. I can hardly wait to make my own leather belt.

 

[Jebadiah_Smith]

The nice thing about the felt is that it doesnt have the huge welt that bumps into a blade. Its pretty thick too and seems durable enough, unless you cut it somehow.

 

[Khukuri Monster]

The bump could be completely removed if I took the time to sand the back of the overlap down a little more.

Also, I think there's a reason that people hone knives and razors on leather, and not felt, strops. I imagine that is what has been found to work better.

The granite anvil worked well enough for a while, it just chipped whenver I hit it. Besides it was free...

And having a 27" long forge may be useful if I ever have to heat treat a sword or something...

And I like African Blackwood...

And I still think it would be a good idea to build a buffing wheel attachment for my KMG...

And the uncoated cloth belts were cheap...

And I don't admit to making mistakes...

 

[Daniel Koster]

Keep the cork belt. Just remember that it has it's place and you need to use it for its purpose only. It's the equivalent of a 400 grit belt once you've flattened it down. You use it for putting on a quick, and flat, nearly-mirror finish. The cork works best on 440C and other stainless steels. Miserable on hi-carbon steel. Just the way it is.

And yes, it is definitely worth it if you take the time to get the cork off. What's 10 minutes? It's nothing, really.....

By the way....too bad you didn't ask me first.........I have 3 other cork belts.........I had to buy in a pack of 4 and they really do last a long time. So, I have 3 others waiting around for their turn.


Think of it this way: By working a piece of steel against the cork belt, you are breaking the tips and points off the cork nodules and, in essence, flattening the belt to a smooth, even finish. The more flat and smooth you get it, the better. That's why most folks give up or don't bother with it. Takes a little setup time. Oh, and the belt really likes high speed and medium pressure. And, uh.....don't get it wet.....:footinmou

What you end up with is a belt that is essentially like a million little fingers rubbing and polishing "wax-on, wax-off"-style on your blade. Hard to explain, easy to see the results.

If you don't think you'll ever work with stainless, then ditch it. It's more of a pain than a pleasure on carbon steel.


And I agree with your scotchbrite comment - now, that's the best money I've ever spent on a belt. Pricey, but very much worth it.

Another tip - the coarse scotchbrite will take scale off your steel without dulling the belt.

The medium scotchbrite can be used to clean up after heat-treat - equivalent to 120 grit.

The fine scotchbrite is best for starting a satin finish. Cuts the total time to one-quarter what you'd spend otherwise....


(still spewing thoughts....)

Trizact belts - cut slow, last long. higher grits are the best. good for sharpening.

New Gator belts - 80 & 120 grits seem to be the best here. Great for clean-up grinding. Hard to set ricasso, bevel, etc. Use ceramic instead.


Ceramic (red) belts - by far the best and fastest for hogging steel. The yellow 3M belts do pretty good too, but the red really turn loose the demons. You can push as hard as you want and more grit just keeps opening up.

For finishing, I no longer use any belts over 320/400. I'm tired of the screw-ups and lack of fine control. Even at 600 rpm, they can be a real pain sometimes. I usually finish up 320 and then go back to handsanding starting at 220 to catch any oopsies.


I used to really like the "J" flex belts for convex edges, but seems like lately they don't cut hard enough when I need 'em to, or if it's a finer grit, they cut too fast.........and they have too much contact surface, so they bog the motor down too.

So, I've gone back to "X" weight belts for finish shaping/grinding. That, or BlueZirc, or gators....depends on the day...


any more questions....?

(can't think of anything else right off the top of my head)

 

[Khukuri Monster]

Are the red belts the Norton "Hoggers"?

It seems like some people prefer the 3M gold belt over Norton, and some prefer the Norton over 3M. The Norton belts were about $1.50 more, so I went with the 3M. I do want to try them sometime, especially if you recommend them.

You recommended the Trizact CF (Gator) for 80 & 120... would you recommend Norax over Trizact CF for 220/320/400?

Oh, and is there any reason you would want to use the 80 grit Trizact CF over the 80-grit Ceramic belts (like Norton Hogger or Gold belt)? Don't the ceramic ones last a lot longer?

It seems like you just have to buy one of everything and find out what you like the best for yourself.

Oh, and how long do you find that the scotchbrite belts last? They are so expensive, I would expect them to last a long time.

 

[Daniel Koster]

It seems like you just have to buy one of everything and find out what you like the best for yourself.

The scotchbrites last a long time. Just don't get sloppy and put a tip into one - they split just as easy as the rest.


I use "X" weight belts at 220-400 grits. I also do mostly convex edges and that's why I like those belts. YMMV.


The 80 gator is nice for taking off steel in a hurry with a clean cut. It cuts straight and stays sharp longer.

I would not profile on a gator - only grinding the bevels, etc.

Norton/3M = true hoggers. I have some at 36 grit and the first time you use it, you get a bath of red stuff all over.....

 

[golok]

I love belts but I love buckles more. Those really nice engraved ones!

 

[Jebadiah_Smith]

The bump could be completely removed if I took the time to sand the back of the overlap down a little more.

Also, I think there's a reason that people hone knives and razors on leather, and not felt, strops. I imagine that is what has been found to work better.

Please dont feel like im knocking your leather belt, its great, really.

But I really dont think that there is a diference between felt and leather used with rouge. Maybe in the olden days leather was used naked to remove a burr, I dont know. The only purpose of the strop on a grinder is to keep the rouge on top and let it cut. I doubt it makes a difference if the belt is leather, felt, nylon, human hair or whatever.

I also dont think that everyone had a comitte where they tested the effectiveness of strops. Some guys probally had old belts, found they worked, showed the trick to their sons and so on. Maybe they didnt have pieces of felt in the proper thickness or shape back then, im not EVEN going to pretend to be an expert on historic cloths

Oh and the tombstone anvil, it is haunted. Laura Bebe haunts your shop at night. She floats around and uses the cork belt while you are asleep.