THEORY: Axe people appreciate history

[the-accumulator]

The forums I frequent include primarily Axe, T&H and Multitool. Recently I was curious about what our cutlery collectors had to say and to show off regarding antique hand-forged food choppers. I posted a photo on the Kitchen Knives forum and invited others to join in the show & tell. To my surprise, I got virtually no response. I then realized that almost all the posts on that forum pertained to new stuff. In my experience with this forum (A, T&H) , I have found a tremendous amount of interest and expertise about the history of the industry and a strong desire amongst the participants to own pieces of the past. Anyone agree/disagree? I am including photos that demonstrate where my passion lies:

Anybody else share similar passion? T-A

 

[jake pogg]

Totally.
Tools separated from the history of their use soon loose Any meaning whatever.
It's the history,the Doing of something,that dictated the shape and ergonomics of tools.
Separate from it tools become senseless;humans never had much of imagination-we mostly draw on the past,(or the ambient natural phenomenon).
Show me a "zombie slaying" implement-and(given some time)i'll dig up the historic analog of some woodworking tool that it was plagiarised from...

Some neat stuff in your photo there.I like that radiused drawknife,it would be handy in any gutter-type carving,from actual gutters to some wooden roofing systems to the longitudinal groove in log-work.

Those "chopper" knives are very cool.Just about every culture in the world has come to use of those radiused knives.Those look to be French or English,and quite old.
You don't see ones as old as these appear to be often.The were very utilitarian implements and discarded freely when worn,most of what came down to us is factory-made,while these appear to be from a smaller, local maker...

 

[the-accumulator]

Tools separated from the history of their use soon loose Any meaning whatever.

Thanks, J.P., for the thoughtful response. It made me recognize a few more reasons why I love seeing/handling/owning and learning about old tools. In case you haven't already seen it, here's the photo from my thread on the Kitchen forum:

And there are alot more where those came from.
T-A

 

[jake pogg]

Wow.
I want to say that this many classy old ones in one place is a Significant event for those of us taking history of tool-making/-use seriously.
I didn't see your thread,no,but this is very impressive.
I'd presume that's the butcher-block scraper in the center?
VERY cool,i love those shapes.
It's very lucky those belong to someone who not only appreciates them but is willing to share the info,absolutely priceless knowledge,this.Thank you!

 

[gben]

You can not put a blanket over any large group of people. I would say that some people who own axes are interested in history, but in my experience, those who own items older than they or maybe their parents are or were contemporary with are more interested in that their items HAVE history, even if they were not part of it. It is the definition of hipsterism, latching onto a history and/or it's aesthetics in an attempt to steal some of the legitimacy of that era or object. If you do not have a past with an object from before that object or genre of objects became "collectibles" or fashionable, or a practical profession that your object is a practical part of, then there is a good chance you have that object as jewelry or a building block for your ego or adopted persona, or to make money flipping it someday, or for some other reason tied into the age of social-media.

So how many out there were/are professional lumberjacks and foresters? How many used an axe as part of daily life before there was an internet-created and supported world-wide community of axe collectors and collecting and marketing? How many collectors of any hand tools used them professionally as a tradesman? How many collectors of antique motorcycles were riding them when they were contemporary or before they were fashionable, valuable collectables??? The answer is a small minority of them all. And the other answer is that a small minority is all that would or will be left after whatever that flavor is no longer fashionably collected and profitably traded.

History? Sure, but much more because it makes the item fashionable and marketable than anything else.

 

[jake pogg]

I agree-and vote to have a Cultural Revolution-collect and destroy all old tools,so as to uproot that pernicious Hipsterism,nip it in a bud!!!

Appreciating old tools-any tools-is an organic process.
There's Information encoded within,that our brain is capable of de-coding,converting into pertinent data of other kinds(history being one).

Internet has only speeded up,intensified that process.Eric Sloane was a layman,neither a tradesman nor a writer,and before the age of internet had created in himself and subsequently others a terrific interest in the subject...

I the 10th century Icelanders composed and retold poems about their own and yet older history...Theirs wasn't even a literate society,it was a point of honor with skalds to compose and recite exclusively using memory,and the peasantry was way too hungry to be lettered...A poet was the most honorable occupation,respected by everyone very deeply...

Australian aborigines have an oral tradition going back roughly 40 000 years....It served many very important functions,who begat who and on and on...

All of these are just organic functions of our species...To seek the information that helps us to create some order of this Cosmos...Tools Do that for me

Good luck in eradicating hipsterism!...

 

[junkenstien]

Mmm I like old stuff because of the quality of the new

 

[Square_peg]

Thanks, J.P., for the thoughtful response. It made me recognize a few more reasons why I love seeing/handling/owning and learning about old tools. In case you haven't already seen it, here's the photo from my thread on the Kitchen forum:
View attachment 1306118
And there are alot more where those came from.
T-A

Impressive set of kitchen cutlery!

I have but one mezzaluna and seldom use it since I got a good pizza wheel. Maybe if I had the matching bowl.....

 

[the-accumulator]

I would say that some people who own axes are interested in history

My title for this thread had to be eye-catching, appropriate for the topic, and, at the same time, concise so as to fit in the space provided. Therefore it certainly does cast a very broad net. Still, in my experience, i have read an extraordinary amount of historical information dug up by those who frequent this forum pertaining to a vast array of edge-tool related topics. I don't see that (although i wish i did) in the Kitchen Knife forum. I'm not saying it's wrong, but it does leave me wanting.
I come from a family with very long generations; my grandparents were born in the 1870s and 80s. I have very few family heirlooms; I have my great grandfather's sailor's palm (a sort of thimble used by a sail maker), and a horn plane that he owned, as well as a watch he gave to my grandfather for Christmas in 1908. So maybe my lack of objects that tie me directly to MY past has in some way contributed to my passion for collecting other people's tools and trinkets from decades past.
But enough of the heady stuff...let's see more pictures!

A recent thrift-store find: a late nineteenth century nearly perfect 16 inch birdseye maple bowl. The perfect accessory for my food chopper collection. I hope you can clearly see the grain and the lathe mark's. I think I did okay for my $2!
Anybody else got show and tell? T-A

 

[jake pogg]

Anybody else got show and tell?

No!I don't own anything That cool!
That knife in the last photo is sweet-those bends were made as a natural function of forging in the bevels...Actually,most if not all of these knives are forged.You can see that from kind of a modest breadth of them;such wide flat sections are difficult to forge and deal with and HT,of course...

That bowl is wonderful,i sure Do see the birds-eyes and lathe marks,Way cool...

Well,i do have Something to show,tho' it's from an entirely different opera:It is called a "t'labaas",and is a woman's knife in essence,very much like what the Inuit call "ulu"("uluar"-plural).
Originally in my area these were made out of a type of shale,or schist,but since white people came they were made out of saw blades.
This particular one is a copy made of an 19th c. one that was given to me long ago.It was made of a whipsaw,that rounded recess was a gullet between teeth.
These vwere made very intelligently,and worked cold,so as to not disturb the original temper of a saw(it'd be a bear to HT).



It's made of a big old band-mill blade section,very kindly Mark Knapp has copied it for me(and put a gorgeous edge on it),and we both saved that pattern...

But,Gben,if you read this-before i gave that old one away i skinned And butchered many moose,and other animals with it,and made dry meat uncounted...
And the new one is being used by my friends to cut up many cool things,walrus and seal and caribou...And once i helped them to cut up this section of a humpback whale tail fluke...to make a pickle...it was of a gorgeous,perfect airfoil section....

 

[Astrogator]

Hi,

Nice thread.

Cheers.

 

[the-accumulator]

Getting back on topic (as in Axe Forum...), l'd love to know more about the two hatchets in my second:

Why are they so crudely finished and relatively asymmetrical. Because they're old? Or because someone made them strictly to meet their wood-cutting needs with no concern for aesthetics? Or does it have to do with the limitations of their skills or their equipment? Or maybe a combination of the above? I'm guessing who ever made them did not make axes/hatchets day in and day out but rather only when there was a need for one. I'm guessing pre-civil war or even earlier? If they could only talk...or maybe they are talking, and I'm just not listening carefully enough!?
Thanks for all the interest and input so far. T-A

 

[jake pogg]

Why are they so crudely finished and relatively asymmetrical. Because they're old? Or because someone made them strictly to meet their wood-cutting needs with no concern for aesthetics?

The top one in the photo,I want to say,may not be an axe.
It looks like a handled cold-,or hot-cut,(or a "creaser",depending on how sharp it is)built for following a line in some flat material(like tin,sheet copper or lead,et c).
The lines it was made to follow weren't too straight,that's why the radius of the blade is pretty steep-to make gradual but fairly steep curves.
The after-end of such radiused chisel stays in the cut while the forward tip can advance,making a line that is not all jagged.
It could've been used to cut the mat'i,or help make a sharp corner in bending.
It was obviously a driven tool,that mushroom doesn't look disorganised or random,but rather like the result of long,regular use...

The second axe looks,at first glance,like it was maybe worn very short,than taken to a PH and the blade was drawn out,leaving those cross marks...
T-A,,Sir,it's pretty tough to call stuff from photo as it is,but what makes it even harder with axes is not having the top(at least,often the bottom as well)view.The shape of an eye and the profile of the blade all have Lots to say about any axe-like tool...

 

[the-accumulator]

it's pretty tough to call stuff from photo

More and better photos; I can handle that:

And for the chisel:

The hatchet is very irregular throughout. Note that the eye is off-center and doesn't even go straight through the head. I rehung it on the haft that came with it and struggled to get the bit to even come close to lining up with the haft.
The chisel...a light bulb moment! That explains why the eye is so small and short from top to bottom. It was never meant to be swung. Well done. Shetlock!
I hope the new axe photos give you a few new clues. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and your thoughts. T-A

 

[Square_peg]

You can see how the eye was wrapped. And it looks like it has a steel poll cap. I would say smith made not factory made. And old, likely at least pre-1900, maybe pre-1850. Factory axes were pretty much the norm by the civil war. But a farm blacksmith might have still done it that up to 1920ish.

 

[jake pogg]

Thanks for a bunch of new photos!

Man,that hatchet is funky...Could it be a remnant of a single-bevel something,reforged?(a broadaxe?).

That last of the photos Really has that asymmetric flavor...

I'd side with Square-peg,a very old,or very rural tool...(or both...

If my files weren't such a shameful mess i'd try to look for this broadaxe i took a picture of in the collections of Museum of the North at UAF....let me see if i can maybe get lucky..

 

[jake pogg]

Wow,i actually found it right away...BUT,no relation whatsoever,sorry.

I'll leave the photos hang here,but no resemblance or anything parallel at all...(other than it being a lefty...).

 

[the-accumulator]

It is called a "t'labaas",and is a woman's knife in essence,very much like what the Inuit call "ulu"("uluar"-plural).

J.P., that's a beautiful ulu; I want to feel it in my hand, feel it's balance, and make a salad with it! BTW. what's the plural for t'labaas?
And... a left-handed bearded hewing hatchet. I'm sure I saw three or four of them just last week! Don't I wish! Condition looks great, but I could enjoy it even more with a few more photos, if you've got some.
THEORY #2: Blacksmiths don't follow the rules. Rule #1: Don't go to the time and effort to make something if you can buy it at the general store. Blacksmith's rule: Why buy something when I can make it myself? That sure messes with our system of dating historical objects! T-A

 

[I'mSoSharp]

There are definitely some on this forum who are interested in history & some not, seeing as cutters & tools are one area where newer doesn't usually mean better, there is still huge appreciation for old cutters of any kind, something that doesn't always follow with other interests. When I find an old tool I usually try to find as much history about it as I can, same as most here I think.

I started collecting hammers before I even knew I was collecting them! In a previous life as a panel beater I used to love my hammers (& dollies) & started buying any old hammer I saw in a different style, it's like black/bladesmithing (that came later) no matter how many hammers one has another one "never goes amiss" (British saying for it'll come in useful...... Maybe one day!).

Generally though I love old tools, I'm don't collect for prestige, I don't collect for investments as to be honest they aren't worth much, I collect because the ones I can use (hammers, axes & hatchets, knives, woodworking tools like planes & spokeshaves, even things like old tyre levers) give me so much more pleasure to use when they were often made to be asthetically pleasing, made in a time without so much obsolescence, made to use for a lifetime or two or three........
My favourite tools are all around my home like ornaments because I love the look of them, some I use some I don't. From where I'm sitting now I can see about 25 axes & hatchets, about 40 knives, about 100 hammers & various planes, adzes, saws & mallets etc. Lovely

Anyway, enough talk here are images of some of my favorites. Below are some beautiful wrought iron tools.

Coach wrenches.

I like carbon steel knives.

This one (second down above) makes an Opinel blade look a bit chunky!

Hope the knives & wrenches are not too modern & too far off topic.

 

[the-accumulator]

Hope the knives & wrenches are not too modern & too far off topic.

Well, you've got a hatchet and an adze in your first picture, and the thread has "History" in the title. Don't worry. you're covered! You're welcome to drop any or all of those tools off at my place, and I'll watch 'em for ya! Beautiful collection, and your passion obviously runs deep,. Thanks for sharing. T-A