There's not a five cents worth of difference between those steels

golok

golok

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Recently, I read in a knife magazine article with a comment from a veteran knifemaker that "there's not a five-cent difference between steels like 440c, ATS-34, and CPM40."

Since my knowledge about the properties of the various kinds of steel is rather limited, I shall not comment on that remark.

But I would certainly like to hear from the experts if that is true.

And it's not the first time, I have heard such a comment from knife people, including hunters.
 
Actually there isn't much difference between them to people that do not use a variety of steels often enought to tell. If a hunter has used a certain knife for the last 5 years to skin and gut one or two deer a year, then there isn't a nickels worth of difference to him. He isn't going to change because that knife satisfys his needs for a knife. The hunting guide that takes many hunters afield and uses several knives that he has accumulated over the years, will be able to tell the difference in the knives he uses. Unless he knows what they are made of, it is a brand name difference, not necessarily the steel. Even knifemakers have a preferance as to the steel that they like. Sometimes it is because the customers want it, and some times it is the makers belief that he is using the best steel he can. There are many steels and some are suited for some things better than others. That's what makes the custom knife market a veritable bed of controversity as to which steels are "best". :) If you have known some of the knifemakers for a long period of time, their best steels are the ones that they are using now. This is because they have used the others and have come this far in evaluation and testing of the blades and have arrived at the place they are now. It isn't that the steels they used 10 years ago is no good, it is that what is used now is a little better. Sometimes a little is all we can get at a time. Hopefully, in the future, mine will be even better.
 
whats cpm40? No such thing.

The CPM steels by crucible are FAR superior to what was used in the 70s and 80s.

I think that guy should investigate the Crucible Particle Metalurgy steels a bit before he makes a statement like that.
 
Tom,
You are right about the steels today being better than they were 20 or 30 years ago, but if people don't use knives very much, they will never know the difference. And if they do notice a difference in the cutting ability of the knife, it is usually a factory knife and they will associate the cutting with the brand name.
 
I wonder if that knifemaker meant, that in terms of raw element costs ( say upping Vanadium content by .02% ) there is little difference in $. This is true, however, unless you are Crucible it makes little difference to either the knifemaker or the knife consumer.

Just a thought, feel free to think me a dumb@ss.

Dan
 
lesoleilnoir's explanation sounds logical to me. Could you please describe the context in which the statement was made, golok?
 
The maker was Tim Britton.He never mentioned cpm 440 steel.He compared 440C,Ats34 and 154CM.His point was that if all these steels were heat treated to get the most out of the steels then Theres not 5 cents worth of difference between them.I happen to agree that the average user would'nt be able to tell the difference if these steels were'nt marked.Myself included.
 
I usually prefer to let the maker use whatever steel they are most comfortable with. The chemical properties are only a part of the equation. The heat treatment and the blade geometry that can best be supported by the steel are equally important, and these usually get better with experience.

n2s
 
Originally posted by golok
Recently, I read in a knife magazine article with a comment from a veteran knifemaker that "there's not a five-cent difference between steels like 440c, ATS-34, and CPM40."

Since my knowledge about the properties of the various kinds of steel is rather limited, I shall not comment on that remark.

But I would certainly like to hear from the experts if that is true.

And it's not the first time, I have heard such a comment from knife people, including hunters.
Click to expand...


who ever said it is right.
about the only way to tell a difference is if they r rc high
really hi
rc 62
then the 440 falls behind the other 2
and the differerence between ats and 154 is non existant
and if u want your feathers really ruffeled 420je(cheap) makes a better big knife than any of them
harley
www.lonesoempineknives.om
 
I have to add this, probably will get a lot of heat, BUT:

Why would anyone use those has been age old steels when there are a lot of FAR SUPERIOR Steel products on the market??

The cost of the steel is insignificant in the price of a custom knife.
 
I have to put my.02 worth in this discussion.I was one of those collectors who was partial to those blades that were considered"purty".
ATS-34,154CM were kind of the norm.
Then came BG42.Great steel
Then I met a knifemaker,J.P.Holmes, who introduced me to 440v,S30v and 10V in using knives.Kitchen knives.Filet knives.D2 also is one in which I indulge.Woooie what a difference in steels.
They seem to cut,and cut,and cut.Now I are a steel snob.
Now anytime I order a knife I ask for the steel.Happy:)
Ran
 
Hey, Golok,once in a while you will read a real goof written by a knife mag writer such as what you mentioned. I read one by a well known writer that stated that stainless will not rust.I don't know what planet he is from! Right now I'm using CPM440V, pretty hard to beat! Sincerely, John
 
Originally posted by tom mayo
I have to add this, probably will get a lot of heat, BUT:

Why would anyone use those has been age old steels when there are a lot of FAR SUPERIOR Steel products on the market??

The cost of the steel is insignificant in the price of a custom knife.
Click to expand...
Because some of those age old steels make great knife blades. FAR SUPERIOR? Guess it depends on what you want. here is a thread that I have 2 blades that are the same exsept for the steel type.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=238224
 
Originally posted by larry harley
who ever said it is right.
about the only way to tell a difference is if they r rc high
really hi
rc 62
then the 440 falls behind the other 2
and the differerence between ats and 154 is non existant
and if u want your feathers really ruffeled 420je(cheap) makes a better big knife than any of them
harley
www.lonesoempineknives.om
Click to expand...


It is somewhat childish to understand ATS and 154 only for
the numerical value which is easy to measure. Although there is no bad thing if a metal organization is not detailed, it
is things scientifically to become easy to destroy, if metal becomes hard and it is not a finer microstructure obvious. It is not easy to understand its quality,because it is the problem of probability.If edge may be missing partialy, it is hard to re-grind it. I think that things which is understood by many making and using experience exists.
 
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