Thermopylae and Tirad Pass

U

untamed

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Jan 7, 2003
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As someone who grew up enjoying American comics and who is a student of martial arts and defensive tactics and history, I was basically doing cartwheels when I first heard about "300" sometime last year (now it's only two days away!)

"History repeats itself" maybe a simplistic way of seeing things but what we are now is often owed to the sacrifice of a brave and noble few who stood up to overwhelming odds. There was Thermopylae in Greece, Masada in Israel, the Alamo in the US and here in my country, Tirad Pass.

Among those battles I mentioned above, I can't help but share the uncanny similarities between the Battles of Thempylae and Tirad Pass; from holding and defending the "bottle-neck" for the main force to escape to the traitorous action from someone from the ranks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tirad_Pass

Gen. Gregorio Del Pilar (known as "the Boy General") was the Leonidas in this story. He was only 24 when he died valiantly defending the pass.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorio_del_Pilar

Finally, there were the final words with which we remember them -

The famous epitaph by Simonides in honor of the 300 Spartans translated anonymously:

Go tell them in Sparta, passer-by,
That here, obedient to their laws, we lie.

This one was what an American correspondent found in Gen. del Pilar's diary:

"The General has given me the pick of all the men that can be spared and ordered me to defend the Pass. I realize what a terrible task has been given me. And yet I feel that this is the most glorious moment of my life. What I do is done for my beloved country. No sacrifice can be too great."

What a glorious way it is to die than defending those things which you hold dear.
 
Interesting bit of history there untamed , I did not previously know this.

I love stories of the underdog confounding thier opponent , such as the Boers fighting and beating the British many times before thier defeat. The Alamo is a great story too , I wish more folks knew the defenders were as multi-ethnic as they were determined.
 
I am prompted by this terrific story to paraphrase Conan: "what matters is that few stood against many."
 
I'm ambivalent about the movie. It is a comic book adaptation.

I've seen the previews and it bears no semblance on anything "real."

It is over the top and has comic book type villains and scenery in it. I'm sure that it will be scenically and theatrically spectacular, but if you were hoping for it to be Pressfield's "Gates of Fire," you will be sadly disappointed.

Me... I'm bummed. Hollywood spends so much money spewing out all kinds of crap that you would think that maybe, just maybe, one of the studios could save their pennies and stop releasing garbage films and fund classics. Gates of Fire could have been so, but they were put off by how much they were going to have to pay certain actors. George Clooney was to be one protagonist, but I think that a movie such as this would have been better served by casting lesser famed actors.
 
Kampfjaeger said:
It is over the top and has comic book type villains and scenery in it. I'm sure that it will be scenically and theatrically spectacular, but if you were hoping for it to be Pressfield's "Gates of Fire," you will be sadly disappointed.
Click to expand...

This is because it is based on a comic book; a graphic novel by Frank Miller. He also wrote "Sin City" and that movie turned out great. In making "300" the director stuck to the look and feel of the comic and he does so frame by frame. They actually had to add to the film to get the history correct. Anything that has Frank Miller's name attached to it is sure to be awesome.

So before you go off on a rant take the whole film into the context in which it is being made. Those who know Frank Miller's work will be very happy with this film. Those who don't will criticize it just as you have done.
 
thanks for the history. i heard about the battle once from Filipino friends, but never checked it out until now. awesome.

on '300', i do historical reenactment/armored combat, focusing on Greek and Roman. yes, the movie is not history. it was never meant to be. it's just Miller's rather 'operatic' take on Thermopylae. 'Gates of Fire' was optioned, but is stalled and probably dead. the only way '300' was made was because 'Sin City' made money. for all that though, i can't wait to see it. i talked to people who are pickier about history than i am, who went to the early screenings, and they LOVED it. it's a full on chest-beating, raw-meat-eating, kick-butt testosterone fest.
 
Untamed: Thank you very much....back when I was a young officer, I heard this story but did not really put it into context then. Now it has a lot of relevance and deserves wider telling. Heros and Patriots wear many uniforms.

Best
Dwight
 
Collucch......
Totally disagree. Sin City blew.
Dark Knight returns. Now THAT would be a movie! :D
I am looking forward to 300 though.
I flipped through the comic, and it seemed really, really short.
I think the movie will have certain elements based on the comic, but not restricted by it. [from having viewed the trailer]
 
I read on one of the websites that during the first screening in Germany to 1700 people, they had to stop the film three times due to rowdiness. I might just believe that since I get an adrenaline surge just watching the previews. I will definitely be seeing the first available showing here in Colorado.....I am hoping that one of the theatres will do a Thursday midnight showing.
 
As for history...well....the 300 is meant to be entertainment. Not the least inconsistancy I have noticed in the trailers (besides the CGI monsters, etc.) is that they seem to have left out the Athenians and Thebians that were present in aid of the spartans. I did watch a special on the making of, and I am happy that a couple of Innosanto instructors did the fight coreography. It will be interesting to see how they adapted jkd, thai boxing, stick fighting, western boxing, silat, and the others to ancient greek fighting methods.
 
the Thespians aught to be there at least, they had supporting roles in the comic, even if they outnumbered Spartans 4:1.
 
Metis

the Thespians aught to be there at least, they had supporting roles in the comic, even if they outnumbered Spartans 4:1.
Click to expand...

Yes, the Thespians did a wonderful backup chorus line with great production numbers while the Spartans were fighting.
 
K.V. Collucci said:
This is because it is based on a comic book; a graphic novel by Frank Miller. He also wrote "Sin City" and that movie turned out great. In making "300" the director stuck to the look and feel of the comic and he does so frame by frame. They actually had to add to the film to get the history correct. Anything that has Frank Miller's name attached to it is sure to be awesome.

So before you go off on a rant take the whole film into the context in which it is being made. Those who know Frank Miller's work will be very happy with this film. Those who don't will criticize it just as you have done.
Click to expand...

Kampfjaeger, Ken, I am a fan of Frank Millers. I loved Ronin, the Dark Knight Returns, Sin City, and the 300 comic. I am an armchair historian, and while I think that the feel of Sin City, while working well for the 300 comic, won't lend itself well to a movie adaptation. It is an adaptation of the comic, but I think that the backgrounds would have worked better as real scenery, rather than special effects. Sin City was a noir film, and the design worked great. I am going to see 300, but I do not know if it will work. I am certain that the story, characters and action will make me forget about the backgrounds though.



I too am waiting for the Dark Knight Returns movie.
 
"A rush of testosterone-fueled violence, drenched in blood & sweat (but no tears), Zack Snyder's 300 is a delicious triumph and the ultimate movie epic for men.

This intense depiction of the Spartans and their infamous Battle of Thermopylae are rendered with about as much historical accuracy as an average episode of Xena: Warrior Princess, as if it really matters.

Snyder so absolutely nails the ferocity of the Spartan Way (and the spirit of Frank Miller's graphic novel for that matter), I couldn't imagine a more proper tribute.

Rating: Four Stars and a half out of five."

http://uk.rottentomatoes.com/click/...tic=columns&sortby=default&page=2&rid=1605217

:D

maximus otter
 
KV,
Perhaps I misrepresented my stance here. I'm not criticizing Frank Miller's work. I'm certain that 300 will be a fine comic book come to life on the movie screen. I saw Sin City and wasn't really impressed - I could appreciate it (especially Jessica Alba), but it wasn't my cup of tea. However, I could definitely see the attraction.

My complaint is that Hollywood seems to have no problems substituting crap for quality as long as they can produce it in the quantities they want/need and turn a profit. In this instance, I think that Hollywood took the low road when they didn't want to shell out the bucks to make a potential classic and intelligent movie along the lines of something directed by Ridley Scott a la Black Hawk Down. Wouldn't you much rather have seen something like that?

I expect that I'll rent 300 when it comes out on video (2 young kids and I work nights... probably not going to get to go out to the movies any time real soon). I also expect that I'll enjoy it - for what it is. But I am disappointed that Hollywood gave the other option the axe and opted for this instead rather than as well.
 
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