I haven't often said that I have met a folder that has gotten my goat but my Queen Slimline Trapper is doing a real bang up job. This knife came so thick that it would never make a good EDC. I can't remember quite how thick but I think it was over 0.050 right behind the edge. I like my EDC to be 0.020 or less behind the edge. I have been trying different sharpening media for over a week but I can't find anything that takes off steel quickly. Sharpening or thinning I have tried both. Even the coarse side of my SiC stone works so slowly it isn't funny. I am talking about many SOLID hours of grinding to get to even a slightly serviceable edge. I am not usually one to complain about small things in production knives if I can easily fix the problem. This is not easily fixed though...
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Thick ground Queen in D2 IS GETTING MY GOAT!!! Need something more aggressive.
- Thread starter Squashfan
- Start date
Ernie1980
Gold Member
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- Apr 19, 2012
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- 8,107
You need some diamond plates. D2 kicked my tail at first too, especially Queen's version. (2 of my favorite Queen knives are D2 bladed)
I got an extra course DMT plate, and it worked great at removing metal in at least a reasonable amount of time. And just some encouragement: it is worth the effort once you thin it out because those knives hold a nice edge for a long time:thumbup:
I got an extra course DMT plate, and it worked great at removing metal in at least a reasonable amount of time. And just some encouragement: it is worth the effort once you thin it out because those knives hold a nice edge for a long time:thumbup:
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On Queen's small, but thick(ish)-ground blades like these, I've always preferred using a back/forth or circular scrubbing stroke on a diamond hone. The combination of the scrubbing stroke and the diamond (suggest Coarse/Fine) works faster than anything I've tried on Queen's D2.
My usual technique has involved either my DMT credit card hone (Fine; 600-mesh/25µ), or a Coarse/Fine 6" double-sided Duo-Sharp hone. I usually try starting with the Fine side of the Duo-Sharp, just to minimize the coarse scratches that'll have to be cleaned up later; anything too coarse, on such a small & thin blade, will leave scratches so deep it'll be hard to clean them up without grinding away a whole lot of the small blade's steel. That's why I prefer to stay with a Fine diamond hone, as it's usually aggressive enough to work in a timely manner without gouging the steel so deeply. If I get really frustrated with the progress, only then will I resort to the Coarse side of the hone. I keep the pad of my index finger alongside the portion of the blade being worked, in order to better feel the contact with the hone. To get a new, more acute bevel going, I'll often start with a linear back & forth motion, moving the blade in it's long axis (heel-tip & back). I've found that's easier to keep the angle steady (for me), while initiating the new bevel. Once that new 'flat' is created, it's easier to get a feel for the bevel and maintain flush contact. That's when I'll give myself the option to use whichever stroke is comfortable, either the linear back & forth, or I might begin to work the blade in more of a circular or elliptical pattern. The whole point is to maintain the 'scrubbing' action on the hone, as that really speeds up the grinding. Using water, or dish soap & water, or even mineral oil on the diamond hone may (for you) improve the feedback and/or smooth out the stroke a bit; for me, that can lend some better feel for consistent angle and pressure, and sometimes makes it easier to establish a comfortable rhythm while doing the grinding. It'll also keep the swarf from clogging the hone.
David
My usual technique has involved either my DMT credit card hone (Fine; 600-mesh/25µ), or a Coarse/Fine 6" double-sided Duo-Sharp hone. I usually try starting with the Fine side of the Duo-Sharp, just to minimize the coarse scratches that'll have to be cleaned up later; anything too coarse, on such a small & thin blade, will leave scratches so deep it'll be hard to clean them up without grinding away a whole lot of the small blade's steel. That's why I prefer to stay with a Fine diamond hone, as it's usually aggressive enough to work in a timely manner without gouging the steel so deeply. If I get really frustrated with the progress, only then will I resort to the Coarse side of the hone. I keep the pad of my index finger alongside the portion of the blade being worked, in order to better feel the contact with the hone. To get a new, more acute bevel going, I'll often start with a linear back & forth motion, moving the blade in it's long axis (heel-tip & back). I've found that's easier to keep the angle steady (for me), while initiating the new bevel. Once that new 'flat' is created, it's easier to get a feel for the bevel and maintain flush contact. That's when I'll give myself the option to use whichever stroke is comfortable, either the linear back & forth, or I might begin to work the blade in more of a circular or elliptical pattern. The whole point is to maintain the 'scrubbing' action on the hone, as that really speeds up the grinding. Using water, or dish soap & water, or even mineral oil on the diamond hone may (for you) improve the feedback and/or smooth out the stroke a bit; for me, that can lend some better feel for consistent angle and pressure, and sometimes makes it easier to establish a comfortable rhythm while doing the grinding. It'll also keep the swarf from clogging the hone.
David
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If it's going that slowly, consider the Atoma 140 (first choice) or DMT XXC (second choice) to get your initial bevel angle set. Then consider advancing to finer grit diamond plates or converting the edge with a 150 Nubatama stone or something similar to get those deep scratches out. Jumping to to fine a grit - even a 320 stone after the Atoma 140 is a mistake.
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Ken
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Ken
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2010
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I've had great luck using SiC wet/dry (over a Washboard). Am not familiar with Queen's D2, but was able to lower the inclusive on my Becker and sharpen up nice in under 30 minutes, starting with 320 grit. I keep a sheet of 120 around, but have never really needed anything rougher than 180.
Scrubbing motion works great for stock removal.
Scrubbing motion works great for stock removal.
I have tried and discovered that my coarse diamond stone feels really worn. It was one of the first stones I tried to freehand on. So I may have used to much pressure. It has a medium side. Maybe I will try that. Really, the problem is that the factory grind was/is off. Primary grind is the actaul blade grind right? IE: FFG, hollow or saber. And secondary grind is the edge. I think. Anyway, the edge grind was way off from the factory and maybe the FFG on this knife is uneven too. Am not sure about the FFG though.
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I have taken to using "cutting bevel" and "back bevel" - I can't keep it straight either. Thinning the cutting bevel will help a lot if the back bevel is already fairly thin. If the back bevel is thick, is going to be a lot of stock removal to help it out, a medium diamond is going to be glacially slow in that case.
BluntCut MetalWorks
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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Staple/nail/glue a piece of 2x12 120 or 80 grits belt to hard wood/glass/aluminum backing. Put whatever pressure (bear down with your weight) you can on it to quickly thin the back bevel & cut new cutting bevel. Use with water to avoid heat and wash away swarf. Manual grind with light pressure is plain futile for a lot of hardened stock removal regardless of steel type. So, 1 single 2x72 Norton Blaze would cost you around $7 before shipping.
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Yeah, on an FFG (Full Flat Grind) the 'primary' grind is basically from the spine down to the shoulder of the edge bevels, below which the 'secondary' grind forms the edge itself. I tend to think of the primary as the work that gets done first (shaping the blade overall), and the 'secondary' as the edge that gets applied 'secondarily' after the primary is ground. That's how I keep it straight in my head, anyway.
David
Thanks for the taxonomy help! On this knife the back bevel or primary grind is insanely thick. I first tried to thin the primary grind but that proved futile with every thing I have tried. So trying to sharpen the cutting bevel or secondary grind with a thick back bevel or primary grind and it has been hard.
Blunt, I have been meaning to order some ceramic belts for my 1x30 sander and I may just order some 2x72s while I am at it. I tried a regular, non ceramic 80 grit belt from lowe's. It did not seem to work very well.
Blunt, I have been meaning to order some ceramic belts for my 1x30 sander and I may just order some 2x72s while I am at it. I tried a regular, non ceramic 80 grit belt from lowe's. It did not seem to work very well.
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BluntCut MetalWorks
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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Good ceramic belt handles heavy pressure without having grit fall off or easily fracture. 1x30 Norton 120 grit blaze ceramic belt would work too. Just lean your weight onto the knife against the belt, yes - I'm talking about 25 to 75 lbs of pressure. Oh, remember to dull the edge first before hand grinding. This is what I do when I need a flat back bevel since my 2x42 tendency to somewhat convex my bevel (vertically & horizontally). Also against natural reflex/instinct 100/120 grit actually will works better than 36 to 60 grit for grinding high alloy knives. It's about grit binding strength and higher density of small sharp abrading points.
OR OR OR practice with your 1x30 belt grinder on klunkers, then rough grind this QueenD2. Use bare hands, heat aware.... Steady grind the whole length of the blade, avoid over grind the tip and under grind the heel; dunk in water. repeat.
OR OR OR practice with your 1x30 belt grinder on klunkers, then rough grind this QueenD2. Use bare hands, heat aware.... Steady grind the whole length of the blade, avoid over grind the tip and under grind the heel; dunk in water. repeat.
