Thick Knives in the Woods

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swede79

Joined
Jan 30, 2001
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On the Thin Blades thread, the originator requested that I start my own, so here goes. The question was, what on earth do you need to pry/chop in the woods that would require a thick knife. The answer - wood!

Ever make a campfire? Ever split the pelvis on an elk? Ever get caught in a storm and have to rig a lean-to with a poncho and wood? Ever have a friend get hurt and half to haul him a couple of miles back to civilization? Using a travois is much easier and faster than a fireman's carry. Or, do you look at your friend, and say, "I'm sorry, my knife is not a prybar, get up and walk!" Yes, hatchets and axes and saws (oh my) are better suited for these jobs. I tend to carry a lot of things on hikes, but I'm not carrying an axe. Call me lazy.

Now, I'm not saying that thick knives are the be-all end-all of knifedom. What I am saying is that there is a time and place for most everything, including thick, strong knives. I usually carry more than one knife hiking anyway. When I see people refer to knives as sharpened prybars, they seem to be referring to Cold Steel. Fallkniven and Busse knives are pretty thick, so they must be prybars also.

I must be missing something, I really don't see what the big deal is here. Any takers?
 
I've used mine for cutting tree limbs, vines, cane, etc. Also use them when cutting large pieces of meat/vegetables/skinning animals and fish. (ever try to split a watermelon with a 2 3/4" pocket knife?)
They're just more versatile and you don't have to worry as much about snapping the blade out in the middle of nowhere.
Granted you don't normally need all that metal, but its comforting knowing that if you do its there.
 
I prefer a thicker blade after having broken a couple of thin bladed knives with what I considered to be very little effort.

I'd rather have an in tact thick knive that slices somewhat poorly than a broken thin knife that no longer works so well because part of it's seperated.
 
Blades can certainly be too thin to be strong, but they can also be too thick to cut properly. I take a thinner bladed knife for cutting and a camp knife for harder chores. A hatchet always goes with me as well. I am a firm believer in having the right tool to do the job and am not concerned about the extra weight. An Axe is added only when I do not have to carry it too far.
 
prybay schmybar! I love thick knives for the simple fact that they are durable. I have a basic 9 that I beat the ever-lovin' crap out of, and it stays sharp and comes back for more. (with Busse's lifetime warranty, it's like the thing is daring me to try to break it!)

I like to have a knife on me that I can depend on, and I'm not depending on a thin, flimsy, bendy knife! Some may think that a thick knife (like 1/4" or thicker) is overkill... Try calling it overkill when faced with a NEED for a thick knife and all you have is a thin one.

Some will argue that knives are meant to cut, not pry, bash, and hammer. Well.... sometimes it's a looong way back to the car! Thick blades are better for chopping, digging, prying, hammering, and other stuff that one might encounter "off the beaten path".

Thin knives have their place too. I like to filet a fish every once in a while! But seriously, I do have some thin bladed knives and they have their place, but so do the often ridiculed "sharpened prybars" :D
 
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This is the H.I.-YCS which stands for Yvsa Cherokee Special and is made from a model I designed and carved and that was sent to Nepal by Uncle Bill.:D
Along with the 2 small knives it also comes with a 3 cornered awl that was lost in transit from Nepal or fell into the hands of a customs agent.;)
The awl was made because with so many of the materials used in camp that sometimes tears where you don't want it to when cut with a regular knife.
The hole made with the awl will seldom cause the material to tear.

And the whole rig scabard and all only weighs about 3 pounds.:D
There is a blade for everything in a khukuri rig.:D

Oh yeah. This one is mine too.:D
That makes 3 of these for me. The very first one which is kept in pristine condition and the one I keep for a user.
Both of those have wood handles which I prefer, but this is the 1st horn handled one and I just Had to have it. You guys know the story.;)
Now my sweet wife will also have a YCS to play with when we are in the woods.:D

Also forgot to mention that the spine is almost 7/16" at the bolster to 1/4" at the tip before the edge bevel.
Oh! And it's also silver mounted, the bolster, butt cap and the chape on the scabbard.
 
if you are in a survival situation......or you just want a knife that will perform any task at hand that you throw at it, thicker knives are better....even if the weight factor is envolved
 
00, I beg to differ, but thicker blades are not better at all tasks. They are not better at cutting, in fact they are not as good at it as a thinner blade. For certain tasks a thinner blade is required and for some a very thin blade is needed.

Thick blades are better at doing the heavy work and I would not want to be without one in the bush. I would also want to have one that would work properly if I needed to skin and butcher an animal. That is why I will always have both with me.

IMO a thin knife is not better than a thick one and vice versa. They both are great at doing what they are designed to do, and that is the key. Use a knife for what it was designed to do and you will have better results.

If I had to pick only one kind of knife to take with me into the bush, my choice would be one thick enough to chop with. If I had to I could fillet a fish with a thicker knife. I would hate to try to chop wood with a fish knife.
 
Let's not forget the good old folding saw. I know, I know, its not a knife. But when there is a good chance that there is a good amount of wood to cut (like on our winter hikes) a saw like my 'SvenSaw' is hard to beat. Aluminum construction, very light, folds up into itself :) The CS Recon Scout still goes along but it is the little (thin) knife that usually ends up getting used (Dozier, Livesay Marshall, folder, etc).
Thick knives are good, for me, as in a 'just in case' scenerio, but nuthin beats the right tool for the job :)
My 2¢ just ran out.
 
I suppose It really depends on how you camp and what you like.
I have spent plenty of time in the woods (both as a civilian and a Soldier) and I have never found much need for a big thick knife.

I have never been in a forest that did'nt have plenty of deadfall around to build a campfire. And I have rigged up my poncho as a shelter and I don't see how a thick knife would help any more than a thin knife (but 550 cord sure makes it easier).
I have no experience with elk so I'll take your word on that one.
As for a travois (I guess that's a make-shift litter)--you could still use a thin-blade to cut the rails or break branches off, it would just take a little longer. Besides, a SAK saw will cut more lumber than either a thick or thin blade can hack.

As for the watermelon: I think you're comparing long-blade verses short-blade instead of blade thickness. A 4" thin blade knife will cut a melon much better than a 4" thick blade knife. It's like a machete--if you made it 3X thicker it would'nt cut suger-cane any better (in fact it would be much worse).

IMHO, The only aspects where the thick-blade really shines is PRYING and STABBING. If you're trying to use your knife as a crow-bar then thicker is 100% better. But I have never had to pry anything in the woods. I also very seldom need to stab anything.

I'm sure there are times when I would desire a thick heavy knife but they are so few that I can't justify carrying the extra weight all the time.

That brings me to what I think is the real reason some people prefer a heavy thick blade:
Because that want to!
And that's fine with me--if we were camping together I would probably even ask to borrow if once or twice.

Good luck,
Allen.
 
Originally posted by allenC
As for a travois (I guess that's a make-shift litter)--you could still use a thin-blade to cut the rails or break branches off, it would just take a little longer. Besides, a SAK saw will cut more lumber than either a thick or thin blade can hack.
Click to expand...

Allen,
With all due respect, I must question to some extent the assumptions you're making here. Remember, one of the main advantages to a stouter blade is that it can prepare the limbs for your travois (for example) without having its subsequent ability to perform adversely affected in any demonstrable way. Limbing out a branch from a seasoned hardwood tree is one of the most abusive things you can do to a blade, particularly a thin blade. The time issue notwithstanding, a thinner blade can be a poor choice for such tasks if the edge isn't sufficiently supported, and can suffer permanent damage easier than many might think.

As for the SAK saw, they certainly are efficient little cutters, and are indispensible for some survival tasks which require a level of precision, but for general firewood chopping duty, I'll take my Hossom camp knife or BM-E any day.;) This is especially true when considering branches with a diameter greater than the length of the SAK blade.
 
Good points, everyone!

Yvsa, what cleaner is best for taking drool off your blades? ;) Those are beautiful!

AllenC, thanks for the good response. I guess I keep reading threads like "Why do you NEED that hunk of steel", etc., and I really get a little tired of it. I think people jump to conclusions about people wanting to look macho and all that, and that's not it at all.

Several years ago, I broke my favorite folder prying an arrowhead out of a dead tree stump. I was pretty upset, didn't think I was using that much force. Oh well, I went back later with my Recon Scout and got the arrowhead back... Even though I really prefer a thick knife, I do carry a nice thin razor sharp folder also. I also use my Recon Scout in the endgrain of some logs like a maul to split them into smaller pieces, that's where the prying comes in. I know it's abusive, but when it's all I've got...

Interesting that you note thicker is better for stabbing. I have no experience in that area (nor do I want any), I just assumed thin would be better. Oh well, let's not get that one started, I still remember reading the tanto v.s. clip point stabbing debate, and really don't want that starting up again...:D
 
Well I can certainly empathize with you thick bladed folk although my heart is with the thin bladed guys. I love big heavy knives. I own a Livesay RTAK and BM-E. Without a doubt they are useful. I just derive more satisfaction from a very thin flat ground edge. The heart of the knife is the edge, and thinner cuts better. Of course you can have a thin edge and a thick spine with a hollow grind but you sacrifice slicing ablility.
 
I wish I could talk about both on one thread! I always carry a thick, 3/16th to 1/4 thick blade on extended hikes. I like em! Like most to you, I also carry a smaller and thinner blade, but I will go to that other thread to talk about it. My thick knives are used all the time for wood splitting, minor chopping and game processing. I don't skin or cape deer in the field, but I like a heavy blade to split the pelvis. I will probably get the new GB mini belt axe this year, so won't have to use a knife. Cutting wood? Rarely have to. I use a wire saw or Survival Saw when required. Chopping with a knife? Fun, but I don't have a knife over 12 inches that would make it practical. Prying? I have never had to while camping. To me, the satisfaction of knowing my knife just won't break, no matter what is part of being prepared for the worst.
 
While a 1/4" thick blade of ATS34 is likely to be stronger than a 3/16" blade of the same steel, it in no way necessarily follows that thick blades in general are better/stronger than thinner blades.

There are a whole lot of steels being used out there, and many knives with the same blade steel, have vastly different heat treat and tempering done to them, producing a wide range in the hardness, strength and ductility of the blades. And this, for teh most part, is applied primarily to SS steels, that make up the vast majority of blade steels we see in the knives we buy. It doesn't account for carbon steels, nor does it address the added performance that forging can add to those carbon steels.

I keep the Journeyman test for the ABS in my mind whenever I remember. This is the test for Journeyman, not Master Smith. A knife with a blade of no more than 11" long must first cut a 1" manila rope within 6 inches of the bottom, with one swing. Remember that the higher one goes up the rope(s) the easier it is to cut the rope(s). Then, the blade must chop thru a 2x4 twice. Then, it must be demonstrated to be able to shave the hair from the arm of the smith. Then, it must be bent 90 degrees, without breaking. It must be strong so that it is very hard to bend, but bend it must. The edge can crack at the center of the bend, but a major crack up toward the spine causes immediate disqualification.

I have to say that I'd take a forged 3/16" blade over a 1/4" SS of any variety for an outdoors/survival knife. I think that if the right Master Smith made a blade from 1/8" forged steel, I might well choose that over the 1/4" SS steel also. One major advantage of the forged blade is that it can easily be sharpened in the wilderness. The CPM steels, and the higher alloy SSs aren't usually so easy to sharpen.

I read somewhere recently, that when 440C was the primary steel used by custom makers, it was available in only 1/4" bars. Oddly, almost all the knives made from that steel were 1/4" thick. I think it very possible that expectations of "heftiness" were born during those days.

One last thing. Those little folding saws, with about an 8-9" blade and a plastic handle, can buck up wood so much faster than the average ax or hatchet it simply isn't funny at all. No, they don't split logs well. But for wood up to say 4-5" thick, they go thru it in no time, without fatigue. Whacking one's way thru with a hatchet is real work, if one is doing the task say 20 times.
 
kwm......im talkin about only one knife i could bring....if i could bring more i would bring one of each
 
This is somewhat off topic, but Bugs is right about the folding saw (and the wire saw too). Not only will they out cut a large blade but the chance of self-injury is nearly 0%. At least once a year we get someone in the ER who has accidently hacked themselves with an ax or hatchet or machete.
Just something to consider.

Bronco,
I see what you're saying, but if my friend was injured I would'nt worry much about causing permanent damage to my knife. I also would try to pick a soft-wood tree like a sweetgum or poplar (not hickory or walnut). Even a soft-wood branch as thick as your wrist would do fine for the sides of the litter. Even so, the situation would still suck, but you make-do with what you've got.
That leads me to another plus for the thin-blade knife:
The best knife in an emergency is the one you have with you. I think MOST folks are more likely to leave a heavy thick blade back at camp than a thinner lighter-weight knife.

Good luck,
Allen.
 
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