THANKS dc,,I would appresate that.oh L6,i used to work at the oldest tannery west of the mississippi,in dallas ore.the thick hide is from a bulls head.IT can be thicker than that.we did a few buffalo hides from this guy in montana,,it was so thick thatit didnt want to go through our machines.thought i was gonna die,it was so heavy,coming out of the lime pits,two of my high school friends own it.MUIR&MCDONALDthey make great leather, royboy