Thiers-Issard Galeam and historical razors

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Carboniferous

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I recently came across some Thiers-Issard knives and razors that use NOS steel from the 1920s and 1930s. They say it's cast carbon steel from Jacob Holtzer, but trying to follow up on that doesn't seem to yield much information.

The galeam is significantly bigger than I usually carry, but the historical aspect is very appealing to me. I'm curious if anyone has experience with them and can comment on how it stacks up to modern basic carbon steels, or if anyone has more information about its likely composition/heat treatment.

Any comments on fit and finish/utility/whatever else also appreciated!

couteau-galeam-wenge-zx1200.jpg
 
Carboniferous said:
I recently came across some Thiers-Issard knives and razors that use NOS steel from the 1920s and 1930s. They say it's cast carbon steel from Jacob Holtzer, but trying to follow up on that doesn't seem to yield much information.

The galeam is significantly bigger than I usually carry, but the historical aspect is very appealing to me. I'm curious if anyone has experience with them and can comment on how it stacks up to modern basic carbon steels, or if anyone has more information about its likely composition/heat treatment.

Any comments on fit and finish/utility/whatever else also appreciated!

couteau-galeam-wenge-zx1200.jpg
Click to expand...
Lots of derelict parts (mostly blades, but also springs) are regularly found, either when working on a former shop or simply dumped when moving the factory (as happened to Parapluie these last years) or could be in this case since the death of Jean Issard, here Sauvagnat-Grimaud (Lancer Helmet, Court Jester, Crown brands), also Sauzedde-Roddier (555; Véritable Mallaret brands ).
Sauvagnat-Grimaud was the successor of Sannajust-Douroux who had bought the prosperous Bigay, founded in 1860 from the heir Alexandre Bigay who did even not care clearing the drawers of their change (after WWII he became director of the Thiers museum)!
Galeam pattern has been created by Issard. Unsure if it dates that old.
edit : It has been designed by the son in law of Gilles Reynewater, successor of Issard

Le Galeam :: Coutellerie Pitelet franck artisan coutelier à THIERS

www.coutellerie-pitelet.com www.coutellerie-pitelet.com

Bigay.jpg
Holzer was a company installed in Unieux (near St Etienne) purveyor of good quality carbon steel for razors, surgical purposes and other boilermaking.
 
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Jolipapa said:
Lots of derelict parts (mostly blades, but also springs) are regularly found, either when working on a former shop or simply dumped when moving the factory (as happened to Parapluie these last years) or could be in this case since the death of Jean Issard, here Sauvagnat-Grimaud (Lancer Helmet, Court Jester, Crown brands), also Sauzedde-Roddier (555; Véritable Mallaret brands ).
Sauvagnat-Grimaud was the successor of Sannajust-Douroux who had bought the prosperous Bigay, founded in 1860 from the heir Alexandre Bigay who did even not care clearing the drawers of their change (after WWII he became director of the Thiers museum)!
Galeam pattern has been created by Issard. Unsure if it dates that old.
edit : It has been designed by the son in law of Gilles Reynewater, successor of Issard

Le Galeam :: Coutellerie Pitelet franck artisan coutelier à THIERS

www.coutellerie-pitelet.com www.coutellerie-pitelet.com

View attachment 1926705
Holzer was a company installed in Unieux (near St Etienne) purveyor of good quality carbon steel for razors, surgical purposes and other boilermaking.
Click to expand...
Awesome information, thank you! I figured there was more than I could find but I don't speak French and it doesn't seem like a lot of this knowledge gets translated.

Seems like a ton of very interesting history in these classic cutlery hotspots that doesn't get told. The more I find out the more tempting!
 
DeltaTrain said:
I have the friction folder version in smoked oak. It's extremely similar to an Opinel no. 9 in size. I can't speak to edge retention yet but it definitely came well ground and very sharp.
FL94LDS.jpg
Click to expand...
Sorry for the aside, but is that the outline Fort Frederick on the cover of that book? I went there many times as a kid, and used to also camp along the canal there. I have a funny story that took place at Fort Frederick involving reenactors, discarded paper cartridges, oblivious dads, and a dixie cup full of black powder, but this is not the place to tell it…
 
DeltaTrain said:
I have the friction folder version in smoked oak. It's extremely similar to an Opinel no. 9 in size. I can't speak to edge retention yet but it definitely came well ground and very sharp.
FL94LDS.jpg
Click to expand...
Looks great! I can't decide between the smoked oak and the wenge, especially the real pictures I've seen of the smoked oak compared to the stock photos. Beautiful grain.
 
Carboniferous said:
I recently came across some Thiers-Issard knives and razors that use NOS steel from the 1920s and 1930s. They say it's cast carbon steel from Jacob Holtzer, but trying to follow up on that doesn't seem to yield much information.

The galeam is significantly bigger than I usually carry, but the historical aspect is very appealing to me. I'm curious if anyone has experience with them and can comment on how it stacks up to modern basic carbon steels, or if anyone has more information about its likely composition/heat treatment.

Any comments on fit and finish/utility/whatever else also appreciated!

couteau-galeam-wenge-zx1200.jpg
Click to expand...
Larrin Larrin thought you might be interested in NOS blades from the 1920s.
 
“Cast carbon steel” from then would just be simple carbon steel, somewhere in the range of 1.1-1.5% carbon. By the 1920s-1930s carbon steel would already be very similar to what is made today though the fact it is called “cast” means it was made with the crucible method rather than electric steelmaking which was rapidly taking over the tool steel industry at that point. But the quality wasn’t necessarily any different.
 
Larrin said:
“Cast carbon steel” from then would just be simple carbon steel, somewhere in the range of 1.1-1.5% carbon. By the 1920s-1930s carbon steel would already be very similar to what is made today though the fact it is called “cast” means it was made with the crucible method rather than electric steelmaking which was rapidly taking over the tool steel industry at that point. But the quality wasn’t necessarily any different.
Click to expand...
Makes sense. Is there any reliable data about how they were heat treating/what kind of HRC was typical for cutlery steels at the time? I'm assuming they weren't that interested in putting out knives at 60 HRC, hopefully at least low 50s though? I can also see that being entirely backwards, just very used to American slipjoints in the low 50s.
 
Carboniferous said:
Makes sense. Is there any reliable data about how they were heat treating/what kind of HRC was typical for cutlery steels at the time? I'm assuming they weren't that interested in putting out knives at 60 HRC, hopefully at least low 50s though? I can also see that being entirely backwards, just very used to American slipjoints in the low 50s.
Click to expand...
Knives could be anywhere between 50 and 60. There were pocket knives in the 57-60 Rc range even in the early 1900s. Though I assumed the knife in Discussion here was a shaving razor. Was it for shaving or as a utility knife?
 
Larrin said:
Knives could be anywhere between 50 and 60. There were pocket knives in the 57-60 Rc range even in the early 1900s. Though I assumed the knife in Discussion here was a shaving razor. Was it for shaving or as a utility knife?
Click to expand...
Interesting, I'll have to revise that assumption of mine about pretty universally soft steel in those days. In this case I'm considering the galeam specifically, which is a utility pocket knife. TI just happens to use different blades from the same manufacturer/steel for straight razors they also sell.
 
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