Things I have learned from Kevin

m. wohlwend

m. wohlwend

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I have lurked here more or less for over a year. Kevin seems to me to get discouraged that no one is listening. Here is a chance to name some things you do different because of what you have learned from Kevin.
Here are some of mine......
1. I have completely abandoned all desire to work with "mystery steel"
2. I normalize everything now
3. The interupted quench
4. The use of a canola oil for quenchant
5. The use of known steels that reflect by basic shop ( 5160, 1084, O-1)
6. The importance of the soak
 
I work with air hardening steels most of the time but I forge time to time. Even though he don't use air hardening steels and mainly focuses on carbon steels and O1, with the info I got mostly from him I learned what would be the steel structure at a certain time and temperature, how to HT my stock with dependable results. Also I have learned how to fix some errors I make, like "over annealing"; how to temper for a certain task, effects and depth of decarb, how to control the carbide sizes, which steel would be more appropriate for a certain task etc... I can't thank him enough...
 
canola was mentioned by Mr. McKenzie as having a similar cooling effect to the fast commercial quench oils ! I think he knows what he's talking about

;)
 
I have taken Kevin's advice and purchased a book on metallurgy. I have also learned a lot from him about heat treating.
BUT! Do not be superstitious at the altars of either black magic or industry. If something works as a quenching agent it doesn't mean nothing else will work, whether that is the urine of a wombat or Parks 50. Show the emperical evidence of success or failure. Don't exclude everything else because one thing works, otherwise you are being superstitious.
That includes all aspects of our knifemaking interest.
Don't close your mind to other avenues. Test for yourself or look for test results. Seldom is there only one way to do something or one material to use.
:)

Thanks
Alden
 
Things I have learned about from Kevin (in no particular order, and just what I can come up with right now):

- Parks #50....and the reason I should use it
- Martensite...and the reason I should strive to maximize its creation
- The approximated spheroidal anneal...and why it matters to my grinding
- Alloy banding...and how to fix it
- The effects of bad HT practices...and what makes then bad
- The effects of good HT practices...and what makes them good
- The effects of bad information...and what makes its spread infuriating
- Idol worship...and why you should question your idols
- Knowledge worship...and why you should question your sources
- The importance of first hand experience and testing...and why you can't even trust your own

I could keep going, but if you don't see what I'm getting at by now, there's no point...

-d
 
what i learned from Kevin

the soak...- how its relevent to knife blades and not to fear it
heat treat temperature control...- its importance to making good blades.... so i bought a pyrometer and have been ever so thankful !!!!!!!!. yep... that would be the big one... now i have control and its great... even temp control in forging applications...

after all.... alot depends on your blades heat treat..


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
 
To use the right steel, to soak it, to use a real quenchant and the why of all those things, how to question things and learn from them, the "glass in playdoh effect", that smoking a pipe is cool :D.
 
I would like to be able to put into words what I have learned from Kevin, but I am only starting into knife making. I think all I can say is he is teaching me to be a better knife maker by being more aware of what is happening in and around the metal. I now look into books and this forum more often to find answers to questions, rather than doing something because I think it may work. How does a student acknowledge the teacher???
 
Enough metallurgy to become inquisitive (and dangerous) which led to learning enough that I was able to get a job in a metallurgical lab at a metal plant where I am assisting in the development of some really cool superalloy stuff I'm not allowed to talk about but it makes the day job something that's really cool to do!

That it's alright to go with what your testing indicates works even if it flies in the face of conventional "wisdom"

That the folks who make the steel, and the folks who use it in industry might really have a clue , and that just because we make knives, the laws of physics and metallurgy aren't really different for us (much as we'd really like to believe we are special)

-Page
 
Karl B. Andersen said:
I'm not gonna touch that one.
Click to expand...

I will... Scott McKenzie stated, of the oils not specifically designed as quenchants, canola oil most similarly replicates the "ideal quench" (fast in the beginning and slow at the end).

Mike

PS~ Edit: I should have read all the posts before I put this up... huh, Greg!
 
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The funny thing is that Kevin R. Cashen is just about the most tenaciously humble guy on these forums and probably the least in need of ego-stroking (even if it's richly deserved). He avoids pushing "his" views like the plague and will scarcely venture an opinion unless he can back it up with empirical data. He is a scientist in the best sense of the word. And he might know a thing or two about steel too...
 
I ran into Kevin on this forum back in the archives days... back in the "blood in the streets" of The Quencher Wars... back in what used to be the biggest thread on BF started by a guy named "pig"... Triple Quench or???

I was a confused soul, I was trained triple quench/partial hardening and just couldn't grasp the complexity of it so couldn't use it and was in a serious, "now what". So I started following Kevin around on the forums because it sounded like a thing I might be able to understand. You want to OD, go to any knife forum and search "Kevin R. Cashen". I can't tell you how many Kevin, mete, RLinger, Fitzo, etc. posts I read in the heat of that war. What I got from Kevin, and I mean everyone who worked on helping with real metallurgy, was consistency and clarity... not like I got it but I just knew it was true and all I had to do was have as much will and persistence as they had.

Mike
 
jackrabbitslim said:
The funny thing is that Kevin R. Cashen is just about the most tenaciously humble guy on these forums and probably the least in need of ego-stroking (even if it's richly deserved). He avoids pushing "his" views like the plague and will scarcely venture an opinion unless he can back it up with empirical data. He is a scientist in the best sense of the word. And he might know a thing or two about steel too...
Click to expand...

That's true indeed. I don't see it so much as ego-stroking, but more of an attempt to let Kevin know we're listening, and learning. Not to make him feel better, just to let him know he's not talking to an empty room. The Internet is a great thing, but it hampers the dynamics of interpersonal relations in quite a profound way. What would be communicated in person by a simple raise of an eyebrow might never make it through on a forum, and it could be really important.

I've also learned a thing or two about beer from Kevin. ;) Most importantly though I've been reminded how a man of pure science and engineering, with a passion for his work, can make a difference in other people's lives without even really meaning to.

-d
 
I've learned from Kevin that much of what you read on forums is boloney, and because if this I'm trying to become much more sophisticated with my heat treat process.

Also, I bought several cases of Alberto VO5 to quench in due to Kevin's tutiledge.
 
... I learned that no matter how many times you loan Kevin money at the strip clubs, he's always asking for another fiver because (as he says) "this one's super hot - and she digs me!"

...and you never get the money back, either.
 
Yes, Kevin, we are listening :)

The main lesson I get from Kevin, mete, fitzo and others is, don't buy the hype. If it sounds like an old wive's tale, it probably is.

While steel and heat-treating are deep, fascinating subjects that I may never fully understand, these guys have shown us that relatively simple approaches can get excellent, verifiable, repeatable results. Thanks, gentlemen!

I should add that these fellows set a fine example of courtesy and generosity in their posts. I'll try to follow that standard as well :thumbup:
 
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