Third Party Options in Folders?

[Confederate]

Years ago, when I first decided I wanted a halfway decent knife, I went to Wal*Mart and found an attractive linerlock encased in hard, molded plastic. I could tell from the package that it wasn't light; it had heft to it. And it had a name, Winchester, so I figured it was a steal for $29.95.

Well, two out of three proved to be a crummy deal. Yes, Wal*Mart was a good place to get one's first good knife, and yes, Winchester has a respected name in ammunition and firearms. It was the assumption that name and heft represented an almost certain quality, which we all know is crap, right?

As what often happens when shopping for something not household related, I stripped the packaging off, threw it away and pocketed the knife and the receipt. Discretion is the better part of valor and I didn't want to have to explain the purchase to my wife. She didn't know one knife from another, so why even make it an issue?

Well, I liked the weight of the knife and the way the wood and polished aluminum fit together. But later, when I had the chance to examine my purchase, I realized all the weight was in the frame. And though it wasn't a disasterous choice, it was pretty damn close.

Since then I've seen a lot of crappy knives with frames and handles that were far superior to the blades. In fact, there are some pretty nice frames out there with junk steel blades that aren't worth spit. And then last night I bought a Spyderco Native that has an exceptional blade, but a cheap FRN frame (understandable given the price).

Anyway, I began thinking about this disparity between the blades and the frames. I wondered why the two are so often inseperable. Why don't third parties come along and make, say, a titanium frame that could be used with a Native blade. Just buy a kit, remove the blade from the handle, insert it in the new handle, be it titanium, G10, aluminum or whatever, and you have a knife to your liking? In short, there don't seem to be many means of customizing popular folders. On handguns, one can always change the grips, add front or rear sights, etc., no huge deal.

Blades seem to be where all the expense is concentrated in many knives (not all, though). It seems to me there would be a good market for frames and blades that could be purchased independantly. Many people here have the skills to fit them properly. As with guns, bicycles, cameras and third party grips, sights, tires, handlebars, lenses, I can't imagine why this same concept hasn't come to folding knives.

Would it be feasible?

 

[billstevens]

Try a custom maker. Other than that I can't imagine that would be a stable business plan.

 

[Confederate]

Well, I've noticed there are few makers of sheaths for folders and a dearth of sheaths even for production fixed knives. Custom makers, like gunsmiths, are expensive and are often backlogged. Given the third party offerings in other consumer areas, it's amazing there don't seem to be many offerings for the knife community.

 

[yablanowitz]

Just a suggestion, but before you dismiss that FRN handle on your Native as "cheap", carry it a few months. Beat it as hard as you can, drop it off the roof of a three story building onto a concrete sidewalk, slam it into concrete walls, run over it with your car a few times, then look at it. Then try the same thing with that Winchester and see how it looks.

I'll take Spyderco FRN over a titanium framelock any day. Not all FRN is created equal, but Sal uses the best available. It may not be to your liking, but it isn't "cheap".

To answer your original question more directly, most production knives are pinned construction due to cost considerations, and pinned construction doesn't lend itself to customization by laymen very well. It is far easier to customize knives with all screw construction, but they usually cost more to begin with. I think the best solution is to shop carefully, and spend the extra money to get what you want in the first place.

 

[SuroK]

i came to this website expecting to find aftermarket grips for my CRKT M16. as i want the LE ones or the FD ones. but alas, no.

 

[Martin Swinkels]

Its allready happening a little bit.
See the Leeks, that have parts that are intercangable..
The Rukus that comes with a few scale options..

But you are right.
I would love to have wooden scales on my Presidio
a VG-10 blade in my Vex
a new handle to fit my Starmate blade
etc..

 

[Greg]

As you have found it's a good blade that ups the expense, while a good-looking frame can be cheap. (Whether it actually is a good frame is another thing. Weight isn't always a good way to tell--after all titanium is light!)

To mate a good blade to a frame takes a lot of hand work if you want the lock-up to be tight and reliable--we are talking of tolerances in the thousandths of inch. So I doubt whether a handle could be made that accurately and still be cheap, and who is going to do the custom-fitting of the blade? And who would bother mating a cheap, throw-away frame to a high quality blade?

If you want nice-looking, I suggest you buy a good knife with plain scales and add something to your taste. For instance, I added Australian Silky Oak scales to my plain Sebenza and polished the hollow grind.

Greg

 

[dantzk8]

And then last night I bought a Spyderco Native that has an exceptional blade, but a cheap FRN frame (understandable given the price).

The FRN used by Spyderco is a great quality stuff for knives handles. Tough, lightweight and inexpensive, not cheap.

Anyway, I began thinking about this disparity between the blades and the frames. I wondered why the two are so often inseperable. Why don't third parties come along and make, say, a titanium frame that could be used with a Native blade. Just buy a kit, remove the blade from the handle, insert it in the new handle, be it titanium, G10, aluminum or whatever, and you have a knife to your liking?

Not possible. The tolerances of manufacture and assembly are too tight on a knife. However somes skilled people like STR can put on any knife a custom handle. Have a look at the makers subforum.

dantzk.

 

[kgriggs8]

I used to think that FRN was cheap as well. It looked like cheap plastic and felt like cheap plastic but never seemed to break. My first Spyderco was a Delica (like many other people) and I beat on it more than I thought it could handle. I was not trying to break it but I always thought it was going to break at some point. Never happened.

FRN has won me over despite myself. I didn't want to like it but it works. It works very well.

Don't make the mistake of thinking a knife has to be heavy to be strong. There are only a few places on a folding knife that take the strain. If a maker knows what it is doing (Spyderco, Benchmade ect) they can make a light knife that is very strong.

Take a Delica 4 in one hand and a Winchester or similar heavy cheap folder in the other and it may seem that the heavy folder is more stout. I wouldn't bet my fingers on it though! The Delica and other FRN Spydercos are strong where it counts and light where it don't.

 

[Mick R.]

Chase Axin at Chax knives does custom work on production knives. (Spyderco Paramilitary with blue tweed G-10 scales shown below)
http://www.chaxknives.com/

 

[Dinkum]

You beauty! :thumbup:

 

[Nosetotail]

What about a stainless steel Native. What would be an acceptible price for that as an aftermarket price. Perhaps you are looking at knives in the wrong price range. If you want a nice blade and a nice handle, perhaps you should pay a few more dollars for one. That is what you are going to have to do to have an aftermarket job in the first place.
I said nice in this case because it is innacurate to describe a native frn handle as cheap. It is just not as nice.

 

[Confederate]

Oooops, I think you guys misunderstood. When I say "cheap," I mean inexpensive. Some of my first knives were Cold Steel Voyagers and it didn't take me long to find out why they didn't have liners. They didn't need them. An 800-pound gorilla couldn't break those things, and I wouldn't dream of replacing the grips on my new Native. Still, I might buy another Native and remove the blade if I could pop it in to nice rosewood presentation grip frame or an etched or engraved third party grip frame. This wouldn't necessarily improve the performance of the knife, but it could open more of a market based on individual tastes.

The Byrd Cara Cara comes in an excellent FRN grip frame as well as G10. I love the FRN, but I also very much like the G10.

BTW, I love the Native and it's blade design and handles. Very comfortable, very smooth. And the blade cuts like a dream. I'd love a little larger blade length, though. Also, Greg, I love your Sebenza. The wood makes it look great. You're right about the tolerances, but I'd be willing to take the time to do the hand work myself. I've fit gun parts pretty well and would love to try fitting a blade.