this is the way to do it

butcher_block

butcher_block

Joined
Dec 6, 2004
Messages
6,212
man so i got to use the LN over the weekend
heat treated 13 blades 11 were ats34 and the 2 kabars are cpm154
plate quench is the cats a$$
you all can keep oil for all the other steels if im doing SS bring out the plates one thing that i now see is that im going to want to water cool my plates and set them up proper build up a press/jig
anyhow here is what i got going right now nice little knife sickles right out the dewer warming to room temp
170574190_d804b1683e.jpg
 
Hi, Butch!

Plates are way nice, aren't they? :thumbup: :)

A nice press/jig is tapping and screwing the plates to one of those bench wood vises that have the 'trigger release" lock feature. They have holes in them for doing this normally with wood. Make a little rack to hold the whole thing horizontal. Lock it open, put yer blades in then let it go down, re-engage, and torque down on the blades.

There is a lot of thermal shock hanging them in air right out of the dewar. PERSONALLY, I would consider stuffing them in a cooler of vermiculite or kaowool or something and letting them cool slow prior to the temper cycles. (I'm not looking to argue cryo with people. This is just my take on it.)

Looks like you have enough work to keep you out of trouble for awhile. Lots of nice stuff there! :thumbup:

BTW, I like a nice crowded shop!! :)
 
fitzo said:
Hi, Butch!

Plates are way nice, aren't they? :thumbup: :)

A nice press/jig is tapping and screwing the plates to one of those bench wood vises that have the 'trigger release" lock feature. They have holes in them for doing this normally with wood. Make a little rack to hold the whole thing horizontal. Lock it open, put yer blades in then let it go down, re-engage, and torque down on the blades.

There is a lot of thermal shock hanging them in air right out of the dewar. PERSONALLY, I would consider stuffing them in a cooler of vermiculite or :

BTW, I like a nice crowded shop!! :)
Click to expand...

i ll be looking into the press i was using my 12 ton HF :D well it worked it was a lots of fun pulling hot steel putting between the plates sliding in press and a few quick pulls on the lever and wam 30 sec later the first few were done but after the first 3-4 the plates warmed up and i had to stop and dunk them in water thats why i want to make a setup to pump cool water into and out of the plates to keep them good and cool for say 7 or more blades

didnt think about warming them up too quick :eek: :o thanks for the info i must have got lucky
and so far as the shop space well lets just say im moving out of my old shop and sorta into another but not for long i am leavign my real job and looking for something other to do probley means a move soon
looking at raystown lake PA bout 2 hours north of here
butch
 
I'd think a 12 ton shop frame would do quite well! :)

My shop is so crowded if you back up more than a step you make new special friends! if it were 3 times as large, I'd probably find a way to fill that up, too. George Carlin's Rule: our stuff expands to fit the size of the box.

I'm sorry to hear that about the job. I hope things work out for the better, Butch........
 
butcher_block said:
i am leavign my real job and looking for something other to do probley means a move soon
looking at raystown lake PA bout 2 hours north of here
Click to expand...

You can't do that! Who will I make fun of? Who's oven will I use?

I forbid it! :D

-d
 
Butch are you using aluminum?
mine are 1" thick..and they do get hot fast and that's a good thing..
I never use them again till they are re-cooled to room temp just so I can get the same results each time. ..
water cooled sounds good..

Mike I've thought hard about shock too..
it's why I use the lab dewar and let it evaporate empty and warm on it's own..

but back to thinking about shock ,, I'm thinking again look out :eek: :)
I'm thinking that you can't get more shock then cooling SS from 1950F to ~200 deg in 30 sec's??
with the LN you're at ~ -300 to room temp and warm up would be a lot longer
what's your take on it..?
no arguments here, just anyone's out look on it..and my thoughts..
 
My thinking on it is like this, Dan, and may well be wrong:

Martensite volume is at its max when a blade comes out of cryo. The blade is essentially packed into a volume larger than it started from annealed blank. (like me in my jeans after too big a meal, it is very stressed. :D) Warming it up too fast may have the same effect as pouring warm iced tea on a glassful of ice......crackcrackcrackcrack.

Now, as with other things with knifeblades, the thin geometry may be enough to protect from that. I am not certain, though, as I saw several different items in the lab crack as they warmed once set on the benchtop after direct immersion in LN2.

While the slower warming may not be at all necessary, my feeling is that it surely won't hurt. The commercial cryo boys ramp both down and up, I believe. Maybe warbird will offer an expert's advice.
 
Thanks Mike..
you may be right , better safe than sorry..
it's the main reason I use the lab dewar the way I do it,(just in case) that's about a 24 hour ramp up for me..and seems to be working ..

though on occasion I will remove a blade that I'm in a hurry on..no cracks as of yet though,, knock on wood :) in my case my head , I'll say it before IG does..:)
 
So what your saying,Butch is that all of those blades have been HT'D tempered,cryo'ed and they are that clean ? That saves alot of work :eek: How close do you take them to finish using this process ?
Thats a good looking batch of blades to boot :thumbup:
 
jhiggins said:
I've created a monster! Good going, Butch! :thumbup:
Click to expand...
yes yes you did and thanks:D

valimas the blades come out the kiln in a light grey color no real "scale" the blades you see have been quenched then to the dewer they look white cause of the frost that has built up on them
that said a tight foil pack and plate quench and about the worst thing that can happen is some rainbow of coloring where the little bit of air was left in the packet i have even seen a maker hand sand to 99% and leave the colors on the blade looked nice to boot
next time i ll be taking the blades to alot finer finish before heat treating
i did have one blade loos about an 1/8 inch on the tip looks like while puting the foil packs in the kiln i must have pinholed the foil and i got a touch of decarb no biggy tho cause it goignto be my dress steak knife:)
 
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