Thomas Reads Cutlers, Dublin.

[ed_is_dead]

Have seen no mention here or elsewhere so thought I'd share this recent find.

The company has a rich history going back to 1670. I was aware of the building, I grew up a couple miles from there, it's quite revered here in Dublin.
They forged their swords and knives on Lwr Exchange St, examples of swords are still on display and still crop up for sale it seems

Circa 1800 military officer's sword by Read's of Dublin. at Whyte's Auctions | Whyte's - Irish Art & Collectibles

Auctions of Irish art, Irish collectibles and Irish antiques. Probate valuations, Family Division Valuations, Insurance valuations, Market valuations

www.whytes.ie

They married with the Guinness family and have a long standing reputation for producing quality medical instruments too. This is the only example of a pocket knife my googlefu can find online.

Thomas Read's 1670

Over one year ago I stood alongside some historians on the steps of Dublin City Hall and we discussed the state of Thomas Read Shop. We had just attended an enjoyable lunchtime lecture hosted by...

www.olddublintown.com

The sympathetically restored shop unfortunately is no longer a cutlers but a gents high end store selling an array of objects little of which I'd be inclined nor monied to buy.

Mark side is ivory and pile side seems to have been replaced with bone at some point.
My guess is this was worn on a watch chain which I believe was a Victorian and Edwardian practice so take a stab somewhere there date wise?
Brass liners, nickle silver bolsters, no half stops and still has snap and is tight as a drum. And yes I've edged and am using it

As a Dub who loves old knives I'm over the moon to be minding it. Theres precious little pocket knives from here dating back from then, hope you lot like it as much I do.

 

[Will Power]

What a tremendous thread, thank you for searching out the videos etc .

The knife itself is beyond a Gem, you are so lucky to have a link,'descendant' if you like to this ancient cutler and an integral part of Old Dublin, gone but not forgotten we hope. The oldest Cutler's shop in Europe was indeed an impressive boast. I'd say you're exactly right about this knife being intended for waistcoat use at the end of an Albert chain. Other items such as small Vesta cases in silver for matches, cigar cutters, or sealing rings for wax were alternatives to small knives, even items of jewellery as a keepsake of a sweetheart or ancestor as well. Not surprised that one side may have been replaced, Ivory is fragile in thin panel and very prone to cracking or fracturing if dropped, bone more hardy.

I really enjoyed the videos, particularly the one from 1983 with a visit to the shop and interview with the last owner Jack Cowle who it gave up the shop in 1988..long ago. It reminded me of how formally dressed people were in shops in the past, always collar & tie, jacket, suit or shopman's coat over them. No slobbing about like today in 'sports' gear nor endemic obesity either...Absolutey fascinating to see into a world that Dickens would've understood. a tiny shop crammed with stock with beautiful fixtures- the ancient till, counters and cabinets, there since 1762 and the owner being born in the shop- he looked like he was getting on but very distinguished & articulate.

Wonder what happened to the world's biggest Penknife?? 576 blades and an award in 1845? I suppose the Guinness family have squirrelled that away to join their vast hoard of other treasures.... Or the swords and medical instruments. The anecdote about the table knives was wonderful, large Ebony handled cutler with silver end caps and ferrules only to discover that it was W.B. Yeats' widow who was wanting them refurbished! Musing over dinner using this tableware may have inspired many a poem, and on a literary train, maybe James Joyce had gone past the shop!

You say the shop's facade has been restored but is the interior the same do you know? What of the Chippendale made cabinets ?

Many thanks for asking the time over this, it is a unique window to a vanished world, I think that in many countries artisanship is being destroyed, individuality too as the juggernaut of globalization and its confederate , homogenization grinds on. Your knife must be a very real delight to own, knowing its full context.

Regards, Will

 

[echoscout]

Fascinating history. Nice knife.

 

[ed_is_dead]

Will, your help identifying the history of my mystery J Thomas knife to Excelsior Motorcycles made a beautiful old knife a living piece of history for me. I knew you would appreciate this one too
As you point out this wee knife has a link to me and my family who live, lived and worked in Dublin, so I'm eager to find out more if I can.

Simon Moore Cutlery Historian - Google Search

I plan on trying to contact Mr Moore as he was tasked with researching Reads during the restoration of the building. Must purchase his cutlery book, looks a very interesting read and will be a good companion to my copy of Tweedales.
I'll report back here if successful.
Yes I'd love to know where the exhibition piece ended up, love to photo it!

Regarding the interior, the building was seemingly a complete time warp of bygone times complete with chippendale cabinets.
Where these ended up I'm unsure but I found this instagram account which lists the works undertaken. It also has some great photography which captures some intresting pieces.

Login • Instagram

Welcome back to Instagram. Sign in to check out what your friends, family & interests have been capturing & sharing around the world.

www.instagram.com

Here is a link to the organisation that operates out of Reads now

Reads Cutlers – Dublins Oldest Shop

houseofread.ie

 

[Dermot O'Brien]

Have seen no mention here or elsewhere so thought I'd share this recent find.

The company has a rich history going back to 1670. I was aware of the building, I grew up a couple miles from there, it's quite revered here in Dublin.
They forged their swords and knives on Lwr Exchange St, examples of swords are still on display and still crop up for sale it seems

Circa 1800 military officer's sword by Read's of Dublin. at Whyte's Auctions | Whyte's - Irish Art & Collectibles

Auctions of Irish art, Irish collectibles and Irish antiques. Probate valuations, Family Division Valuations, Insurance valuations, Market valuations

www.whytes.ie

They married with the Guinness family and have a long standing reputation for producing quality medical instruments too. This is the only example of a pocket knife my googlefu can find online.

Thomas Read's 1670

Over one year ago I stood alongside some historians on the steps of Dublin City Hall and we discussed the state of Thomas Read Shop. We had just attended an enjoyable lunchtime lecture hosted by...

www.olddublintown.com

The sympathetically restored shop unfortunately is no longer a cutlers but a gents high end store selling an array of objects little of which I'd be inclined nor monied to buy.

Mark side is ivory and pile side seems to have been replaced with bone at some point.
My guess is this was worn on a watch chain which I believe was a Victorian and Edwardian practice so take a stab somewhere there date wise?
Brass liners, nickle silver bolsters, no half stops and still has snap and is tight as a drum. And yes I've edged and am using it

As a Dub who loves old knives I'm over the moon to be minding it. Theres precious little pocket knives from here dating back from then, hope you lot like it as much I do.

I bought the cutthroat razor I still use today at Thomas Read's back around 1991.

 

[Dermot O'Brien]

Have seen no mention here or elsewhere so thought I'd share this recent find.

The company has a rich history going back to 1670. I was aware of the building, I grew up a couple miles from there, it's quite revered here in Dublin.
They forged their swords and knives on Lwr Exchange St, examples of swords are still on display and still crop up for sale it seems

Circa 1800 military officer's sword by Read's of Dublin. at Whyte's Auctions | Whyte's - Irish Art & Collectibles

Auctions of Irish art, Irish collectibles and Irish antiques. Probate valuations, Family Division Valuations, Insurance valuations, Market valuations

www.whytes.ie

They married with the Guinness family and have a long standing reputation for producing quality medical instruments too. This is the only example of a pocket knife my googlefu can find online.

Thomas Read's 1670

Over one year ago I stood alongside some historians on the steps of Dublin City Hall and we discussed the state of Thomas Read Shop. We had just attended an enjoyable lunchtime lecture hosted by...

www.olddublintown.com

The sympathetically restored shop unfortunately is no longer a cutlers but a gents high end store selling an array of objects little of which I'd be inclined nor monied to buy.

Mark side is ivory and pile side seems to have been replaced with bone at some point.
My guess is this was worn on a watch chain which I believe was a Victorian and Edwardian practice so take a stab somewhere there date wise?
Brass liners, nickle silver bolsters, no half stops and still has snap and is tight as a drum. And yes I've edged and am using it

As a Dub who loves old knives I'm over the moon to be minding it. Theres precious little pocket knives from here dating back from then, hope you lot like it as much I do.

I bought the cutthroat razor I still use
from Thomas Read's back around 1991.

 

[ed_is_dead]

I bought the cutthroat razor I still use
from Thomas Read's back around 1991.

Hi Dermot, delighted to hear you have history with the shop and still use the razor from them. Love to see a picture of it. I've considered using a razor but unfortunately like many my busy life usually sees me reach for the electric.
I no longer live in Dublin but visit frequently and I keep meaning to bring the pocket knife into town and maybe take a snap of it on the famously worn work counter, if it's still there.
I recently found a nice scissors from Reads online and duly bought it for not a lot, it cuts very well and is being used by the family.
A friend informs me a lot of furniture removed from Reads was sold at auction lately, in Wicklow I believe. All out of my price range no doubt.

 

[Jack Black]

Fascinating stuff Ed, I hope you can get some further information from Simon Moore. Do you think your knife was manufactured in Dublin, or do you think it was made for Read's elsewhere? I have pocket knives which carry the names of cutlers all over England and Scotland, but I believe they were made in Sheffield. Fascinating history

I did a thread on Jowika and Listowel, some years back

 

[Dermot O'Brien]

Hi Dermot, delighted to hear you have history with the shop and still use the razor from them. Love to see a picture of it. I've considered using a razor but unfortunately like many my busy life usually sees me reach for the electric.
I no longer live in Dublin but visit frequently and I keep meaning to bring the pocket knife into town and maybe take a snap of it on the famously worn work counter, if it's still there.
I recently found a nice scissors from Reads online and duly bought it for not a lot, it cuts very well and is being used by the family.
A friend informs me a lot of furniture removed from Reads was sold at auction lately, in Wicklow I believe. All out of my price range no doubt.

Hi Dermot, delighted to hear you have history with the shop and still use the razor from them. Love to see a picture of it. I've considered using a razor but unfortunately like many my busy life usually sees me reach for the electric.
I no longer live in Dublin but visit frequently and I keep meaning to bring the pocket knife into town and maybe take a snap of it on the famously worn work counter, if it's still there.
I recently found a nice scissors from Reads online and duly bought it for not a lot, it cuts very well and is being used by the family.
A friend informs me a lot of furniture removed from Reads was sold at auction lately, in Wicklow I believe. All out of my price range no doubt.

Hi Dermot, delighted to hear you have history with the shop and still use the razor from t

Fascinating stuff Ed, I hope you can get some further information from Simon Moore. Do you think your knife was manufactured in Dublin, or do you think it was made for Read's elsewhere? I have pocket knives which carry the names of cutlers all over England and Scotland, but I believe they were made in Sheffield. Fascinating history

I did a thread on Jowika and Listowel, some years back

hem. Love to see a picture of it. I've considered using a razor but unfortunately like many my busy life usually sees me reach for the electric.
I no longer live in Dublin but visit frequently and I keep meaning to bring the pocket knife into town and maybe take a snap of it on the famously worn work counter, if it's still there.
I recently found a nice scissors from Reads online and duly bought it for not a lot, it cuts very well and is being used by the family.
A friend informs me a lot of furniture removed from Reads was sold at auction lately, in Wicklow I believe. All out of my price range no doubt.

 

[Dermot O'Brien]

Hi Dermot, delighted to hear you have history with the shop and still use the razor from them. Love to see a picture of it. I've considered using a razor but unfortunately like many my busy life usually sees me reach for the electric.
I no longer live in Dublin but visit frequently and I keep meaning to bring the pocket knife into town and maybe take a snap of it on the famously worn work counter, if it's still there.
I recently found a nice scissors from Reads online and duly bought it for not a lot, it cuts very well and is being used by the family.
A friend informs me a lot of furniture removed from Reads was sold at auction lately, in Wicklow I believe. All out of my price range no doubt.

No idea how to post a picture on here.

 

[ed_is_dead]

Fascinating stuff Ed, I hope you can get some further information from Simon Moore. Do you think your knife was manufactured in Dublin, or do you think it was made for Read's elsewhere? I have pocket knives which carry the names of cutlers all over England and Scotland, but I believe they were made in Sheffield. Fascinating history

I did a thread on Jowika and Listowel, some years back

It would be a possibility alright Jack but I'd say less so earlier in the company's history. It was a mark of great distinction for Reads to be awarded a Royal Warrent and a license to manufacture weapons in Eire. To outsource/factor actual production would have been a sore pill for them to swallow at a time of nationalist fervour, they had a very proud tradition of quality workmanship it seems.

Another point worth noting is the location of their forge literally around the corner which goes back as far to the mid 17th century in family ownership. There were also pistol manufacturer near by too and a forge for them too.
As to the last breath of the company it's entirely plausible. The scissors I have which appear to be about 70 yrs old or so look identical to a Sheffield pattern I found online, I think from Richards iirc.

No idea how to post a picture on here.

Dermot, if you click on the photo icon above in your reply window you can attach a photo from your files or phone. It's the icon next to the paperclip icon.

 

[Dermot O'Brien]

Still not working.

 

[ed_is_dead]

Still not working.

Bear with it Dermot. Try uploading to this site https://imgbb.com/
Once uploaded it will give you a link you can copy and paste into your reply.

 

[Dermot O'Brien]

It would be a possibility alright Jack but I'd say less so earlier in the company's history. It was a mark of great distinction for Reads to be awarded a Royal Warrent and a license to manufacture weapons in Eire. To outsource/factor actual production would have been a sore pill for them to swallow at a time of nationalist fervour, they had a very proud tradition of quality workmanship it seems.

As to the last breath of the company it's entirely plausible. The scissors I have which appear to be about 70 yrs old or so look identical to a Sheffield pattern I found online, I think from Richards iirc.
Another point worth noting is the location of their forge literally around the corner which goes back as far to the mid 17th century in family ownership. There were also pistol manufacturer near by too and a forge for them too.

Dermot, if you click on the photo icon above in your reply window you can attach a photo from your files or phone. It's the icon n

Still not working.

It would be a possibility alright Jack but I'd say less so earlier in the company's history. It was a mark of great distinction for Reads to be awarded a Royal Warrent and a license to manufacture weapons in Eire. To outsource/factor actual production would have been a sore pill for them to swallow at a time of nationalist fervour, they had a very proud tradition of quality workmanship it seems.

As to the last breath of the company it's entirely plausible. The scissors I have which appear to be about 70 yrs old or so look identical to a Sheffield pattern I found online, I think from Richards iirc.
Another point worth noting is the location of their forge literally around the corner which goes back as far to the mid 17th century in family ownership. There were also pistol manufacturer near by too and a forge for them too.

Dermot, if you click on the photo icon above in your reply window you can attach a photo from your files or phone. It's the icon next to the paper clip icon.

Hi Dermot, delighted to hear you have history with the shop and still use the razor from them. Love to see a picture of it. I've considered using a razor but unfortunately like many my busy life usually sees me reach for the electric.
I no longer live in Dublin but visit frequently and I keep meaning to bring the pocket knife into town and maybe take a snap of it on the famously worn work counter, if it's still there.
I recently found a nice scissors from Reads online and duly bought it for not a lot, it cuts very well and is being used by the family.
A friend informs me a lot of furniture removed from Reads was sold at auction lately, in Wicklow I believe. All out of my price range no doubt.

No

Have seen no mention here or elsewhere so thought I'd share this recent find.

The company has a rich history going back to 1670. I was aware of the building, I grew up a couple miles from there, it's quite revered here in Dublin.
They forged their swords and knives on Lwr Exchange St, examples of swords are still on display and still crop up for sale it seems

Circa 1800 military officer's sword by Read's of Dublin. at Whyte's Auctions | Whyte's - Irish Art & Collectibles

Auctions of Irish art, Irish collectibles and Irish antiques. Probate valuations, Family Division Valuations, Insurance valuations, Market valuations

www.whytes.ie

They married with the Guinness family and have a long standing reputation for producing quality medical instruments too. This is the only example of a pocket knife my googlefu can find online.

Thomas Read's 1670

Over one year ago I stood alongside some historians on the steps of Dublin City Hall and we discussed the state of Thomas Read Shop. We had just attended an enjoyable lunchtime lecture hosted by...

www.olddublintown.com

The sympathetically restored shop unfortunately is no longer a cutlers but a gents high end store selling an array of objects little of which I'd be inclined nor monied to buy.

Mark side is ivory and pile side seems to have been replaced with bone at some point.
My guess is this was worn on a watch chain which I believe was a Victorian and Edwardian practice so take a stab somewhere there date wise?
Brass liners, nickle silver bolsters, no half stops and still has snap and is tight as a drum. And yes I've edged and am using it

As a Dub who loves old knives I'm over the moon to be minding it. Theres precious little pocket knives from here dating back from then, hope you lot like it as much I do.

Bear with it Dermot. Try uploading to this site https://imgbb.com/
Once uploaded it will give you a link you can copy and paste into your reply.

IMG-20230206-163045639 hosted at ImgBB

Image IMG-20230206-163045639 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

 

[Dermot O'Brien]

Thanks

 

[Dermot O'Brien]

As you can see my razor wasn't manufactured by Thomas Read's. It's a Geissen & Forsthoff Timor Hamburg Ring, 306 5/8. I bought it from Read's in 1991.

 

[Dermot O'Brien]

This is the same type razor as featured on a French vintage razor website

Coupe-Chou Hamburg Ring 306 Giesen&Forsthoff | Rasage-Vintage

Rasoir coupe-chou Giesen und Forsthoff réf. Hamburg Ring 306 chasse façon Ivoire. Lame 5/8" en acier carbone et évidée (full-hollow ✔) haute qualité.

www.rasage-vintage.com

 

[Jack Black]

It would be a possibility alright Jack but I'd say less so earlier in the company's history. It was a mark of great distinction for Reads to be awarded a Royal Warrent and a license to manufacture weapons in Eire. To outsource/factor actual production would have been a sore pill for them to swallow at a time of nationalist fervour, they had a very proud tradition of quality workmanship it seems.

Another point worth noting is the location of their forge literally around the corner which goes back as far to the mid 17th century in family ownership. There were also pistol manufacturer near by too and a forge for them too.
As to the last breath of the company it's entirely plausible. The scissors I have which appear to be about 70 yrs old or so look identical to a Sheffield pattern I found online, I think from Richards iirc.

Dermot, if you click on the photo icon above in your reply window you can attach a photo from your files or phone. It's the icon next to the paperclip icon.

I think that is true of many old cutlers Ed, Croisdale of Leeds for example, or the Shrewsbury cutlers who had a reputation even older than Sheffield. If we go back several hundred years, a number of towns manufactured cutlery, not least London of course, but eventually cutlery production was so centred in Sheffield, where the resources were readily available, and labour was cheap, that it was more economically viable to buy in cutlery from Sheffield than to continue to manufacture it. This must have been hard on many cutlers, who took pride in their traditions, and the reputations of their town, but they were forced to succumb to economic necessity, just as Sheffield as had to do more recently, outsourcing work to China. It's worth noting that penknives, or folding knives of any kind, would not have been recorded as weapons, but the 17th century is a long time ago, and they may have manufactured knives, as well as swords, and pistols then. Sadly, by the time Jowika wanted to set up in Listowel, they had to import cutlers from Sheffield to train local men, some of whom married locally, and stayed in Ireland, rather than returning to Yorkshire. I have two Irish great grandfathers, ( from counties Armagh and Antrim), at least one of whom was a cutler, as was his brother, but I think they learned their trade in Sheffield, rather than moving over as cutlers. Many did however, there was a tipping point, and if you were a cutler, you moved to Sheffield for work, and if you wanted knives making, you had them made there. That certainly wasn't always the case though

 

[ed_is_dead]

No

IMG-20230206-163045639 hosted at ImgBB

Image IMG-20230206-163045639 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

Very nice Dermot and great you still use it all these years later.
Do you remember the shop well from back then?

 

[ed_is_dead]

I think that is true of many old cutlers Ed, Croisdale of Leeds for example, or the Shrewsbury cutlers who had a reputation even older than Sheffield. If we go back several hundred years, a number of towns manufactured cutlery, not least London of course, but eventually cutlery production was so centred in Sheffield, where the resources were readily available, and labour was cheap, that it was more economically viable to buy in cutlery from Sheffield than to continue to manufacture it. This must have been hard on many cutlers, who took pride in their traditions, and the reputations of their town, but they were forced to succumb to economic necessity, just as Sheffield as had to do more recently, outsourcing work to China. It's worth noting that penknives, or folding knives of any kind, would not have been recorded as weapons, but the 17th century is a long time ago, and they may have manufactured knives, as well as swords, and pistols then. Sadly, by the time Jowika wanted to set up in Listowel, they had to import cutlers from Sheffield to train local men, some of whom married locally, and stayed in Ireland, rather than returning to Yorkshire. I have two Irish great grandfathers, ( from counties Armagh and Antrim), at least one of whom was a cutler, as was his brother, but I think they learned their trade in Sheffield, rather than moving over as cutlers. Many did however, there was a tipping point, and if you were a cutler, you moved to Sheffield for work, and if you wanted knives making, you had them made there. That certainly wasn't always the case though

History repeating itself Jack! When a centre of specialisation sets up and economies of scale come to into play and outliers can rarely compete. Sheffield was the powerhouse alright but the wheel turns. Your thread showing the once great cutlery factories left to ruin and the many industries that supported them vanished demonstrates this. I was informed lately China is no longer the go to for cheapest labour and they are diversifying with an eye to greater qc!
Regarding outsourcing I have a recent lovely find from a London maker I'd love to ask you about, a JW Stutter whittler. Love to know was it their own or born of Sheffield Jack?

As to Reads, from my research they were prolific in terms of their actual forging output, obviously not on anything approaching Sheffield, but they carved their niche. There was a palpable demand in Ireland for "Irish made" and Reads did pride themselves on this, in fact it was an actual selling point of their's, at least up to the turn of the 20th century.
The forge on Lower Exchange Street was outputting all manner of edged goods, and there was no shortage of innovation with exceptionally well engineered medical instrumentation with which they held patents for. Speaking of which there is even I believe a highly elaborate cork screw design from Reads that's much prized and very valuable among collectors.

Looking at the knife in the original post, I cannot find anwhere online a single other example of a Thomas Reads pocket knife. For this reason and the above I'd think it was born of their own forge. If they were importing, there would be more, especially here in Ireland but I'm yet to see or hear of one orcome across one kicking about car boots.

Post Edwardian times on its foolish to suggest there wasn't an abundance of imported goods with or without Reads stamped on them, the scissors a prime example. It appears machine made not forged, at least the most of it, then perhaps hand ground thereafter?

Here's a site showing some of the medical instruments from Reads

New Collection: Read's Medical Instruments

We have just received an extraordinary part of Ireland’s medical history, with the loan of a large medical instrument collection from Read’s...

rcpilibrary.blogspot.com

I'm totally waffling now but as we're on the topic of global industries and the wheel turning... I can't help but mention another "Irish" bladed item, the Ballinderry Ulfberht sword. A sword made a thousand yrs ago from pucks of crucible steel coming probably from Iran. These pucks were traded/shipped to Germany and made, it's assumed, by monks who recognised this super steels abilities, branded it Ulfberht and sold it to or it was plundered by Vikings. It then came to rest in a lake in Ireland. It's one of the world's finest examples of the breed, myself and the kids stared at it recently for an extended period of time.

How cool is that, dripping in history, and other fluids in its time I'd imagine...
They had a school project on Vikings and I prodded my son in this direction and my daughter on the Berserkers lol.