Thompsons water seal?

[Deagan Brown]

Hey yall, I was wondering if Thompsons water seal could be used to stabilize wood for scales? I was in Montana and I met a Blacksmith by the name of Amede Honeycutt, and he said that soaking the scales in it for about three months and then let it sit and dry for another month then voilà, you have your scales ready to go. I was just wondering if that was a legit thing, thank you.

 

[Alex Topfer]

i have heard of people doing something similar with linseed oil. doesn't seem like it would work as well without the vacuum chamber.
my opinion: stabilised wood is pretty easy to get, so you may as well just get that. it's less effort really. or use normal wood if you don't like stabilised wood.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Thompson's water seal is sort of a joke in the wood industry. It is alcohol and paraffin wax. The oil based type is a solvent and oil.

It would work to some degree on scales, but would not be the same as proper stabilizing with a mono-acrylic resin (like K&G use).

If I was going to spend three months soaking and three months drying, I would use linseed oil. You'd get a better result for less money.

 

[milesofalaska]

I’ve tried most methods of stabilizing handle materials. Correct time consuming can be costly might not work and cheaper in the long run just to buy it done. However. A big however. The end result of doing it yourself your way to your satisfaction can be rewarding and create a uniqie final product distinct to you.



So I settled on cactus juice as economical easy to work with better the many methods. I find I do not have to vacuum if I let it set over a month but depends on kind of wood and it’s hardness. Spatulated birch softer maple soaks fine. If I am not happy it can be redone after, in a vacuum and add a new color if I wish. One advantage of a soak and not the vacuum is, if I add color the resin follows the grain and tends to follow the softest spots first. So correct, I get n uneven penetration. So what. I want the soft spots hard, the already hard spots can stay is it is. I now have awesome wood patterning showing up with the color. If I take it a step further—I use plastic coffee cans handful, and the wood is only half submerged. The liquid wicks up the gran a ways. After a few days I flip the wood over into another can with another color. The colors can overlap someplace in the middle with no definite line with each opposite end a different color. (Bake it as instructions say for cactus juice I do 200 degrees for 3 hours). Time is not so critical as I am doing 30-50 blocks of wood at a time, to be used who knows, years from now. I’m at the same time treating fossil ivory, coral, turquoise, anything I wish to experiment with.



One method I like is the equivalent of super glue. I prefer the star bond brand. I tend to get close to final work on the scales even already on the knife. I squirt it on, and rub with paper towel for a minute . This seems to ensure the glue wipes off the harder spots and moves into the softer deeper. This is just a surface treatment but a 16th to ¼ inches deep which I feel is significant, good enough to have a hard waterproof outter handle. Keeps weight of over-all knife down if this is critical for the Ballance I want. Hard enough to take a shine, not show dirty on the buffer (with impregnated buff compounds) and is weatherproof and adds strength.



I have also put wax some wood and heat with a torch so the wax is driven in. This is immediate results. Adds nothing hardness, but does waterproof and gives nice finish. It its colored wax like shoe wax, it brings out the wood grain. Each method has different purpose and outcome, and as stated in the beginning, has it’s own distinct custom look.

 

[Horsewright]

Hey yall, I was wondering if Thompsons water seal could be used to stabilize wood for scales? I was in Montana and I met a Blacksmith by the name of Amede Honeycutt, and he said that soaking the scales in it for about three months and then let it sit and dry for another month then voilà, you have your scales ready to go. I was just wondering if that was a legit thing, thank you.

Why? Spend your time making knives.

 

[TLR]

I’ve come to the opinion that we need a new word for the “stabilization” that places like K&G provide versus all of the home brews, including cactus juice. I’m tired of cutting into “stabilized wood” only to find that it never fully penetrated. At this point I only buy wood that I know has been commercially stabilized by a few places. I use stabilized wood for the specific properties true stabilization provides and I don’t want to sell knives with handles that won’t live up to the expectations. YMMV

 

[milesofalaska]

I’ve come to the opinion that we need a new word for the “stabilization” that places like K&G provide versus all of the home brews, including cactus juice. I’m tired of cutting into “stabilized wood” only to find that it never fully penetrated. At this point I only buy wood that I know has been commercially stabilized by a few places. I use stabilized wood for the specific properties true stabilization provides and I don’t want to sell knives with handles that won’t live up to the expectations. YMMV

Yes maybe a new definition. For me, I am happy enough with 'cactus juice,' and home brew as you call it. I do not mind that it still has the properties of wood. I am not as connected to material that has been turned into plastic. In my view anything at all that gets done in the way of impregnating with any resin, is added strength to the existing wood. It's a step up from simply doing a overcoat on the finished handle of plain wood. I think there are different levels, price ranges, qualities, in any stabilizing project, same as heat treat of steel. Same as stabilizing fossils for museums, knife work, or display. We can pay different amounts, and ask for different finished properties. As with heat treat and name a Rockwell hardness but was it double tempered, cryo treated and what tests did it pass? What is it made for, who is the market, what is it sold as ,or meant to do? a display knife? I'm told some top knife makers do not even bother to heat treat the steel, it may as well be a butter knife, no one is expected to cut anything with it. Are we told this?( I have only heard from collectors, no names or first hand knowledge) ) For $1,000 or whatever on up, I'd expect a knife that can cut something! But that's me. I assume then there are a variety of markets and people who meet that market. If my stabilized wood is not perfect inside like it didn't penetrate all the way, so what? That side goes against the steel. I may seal it and if I pin it correct, it's not going to warp off the steel. or swell shrink more then plain wood. At worse, I cactus juice it one more time after I cut it. It's not the end of the world. If the outside is hard, stable, looks good - functionally it is as good a finished product as any other stabilized wood. Unless I am wrong. I carry and use knives a lot and put them through brutal tests. In the rain, beating on them, cutting wire, heads off nails, submerged in gas and solvents, skinning in 60 below cold. So feel if it holds up 'for years,' That's good enough for my standards. I'm sure there are different views. I mean no disrespect. Back to maybe yes, different definitions. But 'honesty' might be to say "Stabilized by" or such and such a method (by me) "Using cactus juice." You make it sound like "May as well toss that knife in the trash!"Most of my customers give a blank stare if I get into to much detail. They understand, "If for any reason you are unhappy, get back to me and I'll make it right." If my handle fails I'll refund your money, lifetime guarantee. Two in my life got returned. One chef put his knife in the dishwasher and I had to tune up the handle. The other was a jade handle the guy requested, who beat on it with a hatchet. I Honored my guarantee. I sent off some wood to K&G and was happy enough I guess. Paid some amount - way more then doing it myself. Waited a few weeks. Could only afford a dozen blocks. So an advantage in home brew is, lots of finished wood to match to my design- so better match and look. More choices for my customers. A dye job to suit the exact look I am in control of (for example I soak in up to 3 dyes) and thus artistically a better product, in terms of what I am trying to say with the look of the knife. I can afford to toss out wood I think is not impressive after being done. I do not have to wait. The same could be said about home heat treat. Can the customer trust it? Does it need another name? In my view, how the blade is heat treated is half the knife. If I send a blade off for heat treat, the guy who heat treated did half the job, as half the maker of the blade. Beyond type of steel, heat treat is the biggest factor in separating a good knife from a poor one. Beyond just looks. The more we do ourselves, the more we can honestly call it our custom knife. In my view, the more it has our personal look and identity. So what are we striving for? I'd say I am not perfect, neither are my knives. My life depends on my knife in the wilderness, they work for me, I'm satisfied. I don't rely on someone else's good name connected to my work. Is quality compromised? Yea long reply. I'm bored, on a break, rain out. Headed back to the shop to do some more home brew work. (grin)

 

[afishhunter]

Why "stabilize" the wood? If properly seasoned, it doesn't need "stabilized".
The wood handled knives made pre-Colonial days (1500's-1600's and before) to circa1946, didn''t/don't have "stabilzed" wood coves/slabs, yet the wood is stil in great condition. I am pretty sure "stabilized" wood for a knife handle is post WW2 creation from the marketing departments.

 

[TLR]

Commercially stabilized wood is still wood and doesn’t work or feel like plastic.
I use it for three primary reasons.
It allows me to use beautiful spalted and burl woods as well as species that would otherwise be unsuitable.
It provides a product that I don’t have to worry will absorb moisture.
It provides a significantly stronger and more stable product.

Based on the environments and usage contexts of the places my knives go and the types of knives I want to make I value those qualities.

Sure there are plenty of old knives out there with oak,walnut, maple, and other wood handles. How many of your grandpas old wooden handles knives don’t have cracks around the pins, warped scales, proud tangs, etc.? It was expected and wooden handles were seen as consumable parts of the knife that were expected to be replaced.

When I cut into a piece of wood that was “stabilized” and find untreated pockets I know that those three things I stated above are no longer a guarantee.

Like I said, YMMV. We each have stated goals and expectations of the materials we use. Though I almost exclusively use stabilized woods and phenolics I also use stag, sheep horn, and desert ironwood. I just have different expectations for those materials. I won’t criticize you for using unstabilized walnut or 1084 though I use stabilized woods and 3V. What I do struggle with is having people sell me a product that does not live up to the label.